Legality of a fore grip on a pistol greater that 26” OAL

R

Rich_357

New member
I did some searching and it appears that a pistol (barrel less than 16”) and an over all length of greater than 26” can have a forward vertical grip. True?

My AR pistol (10.5” barrel) is 26.25” OAL including the buffer tube. I think that would apply as it is part of the original configuration.

My PAP M92 is 19.5” OAL, 26.5” including the SB47 wrist brace. This would not apply to said rule as the SB47 brace was not part of the original configuration.

Reference:
https://johnpierceesq.com/can-you-add-a-vertical-fore-grip-to-an-ar-pistol/
 
Honestly, it's a mess.

The '34 NFA doesn't define pistols with forward grips as AOW's.

Rather, the ATF has arbitrarily decided that they are and justify it with nonsense Wonderland logic. This interpretation was shot down in "US vs Davis", which the ATF has chosen to ignore.

Anyways, AOW's are explicitly defined as concealable, which the ATF has interpreted to mean a maximum of 26" of overall length with no restriction on barrel length.

Under what's currently considered to be the ATF's interpretation of the law, you are probably ok as long as you don't conceal it.
 
Thanks for the reply; the info is appreciated. I did miss one thing though; the flash hider is not to be considered into the OAL unless it has been pinned! DOH... No big deal, that's not too difficult to have done.
 
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kozak6 ...The '34 NFA doesn't define pistols with forward grips as AOW's.
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But the 1968 Gun Control Act does.;)



Rather, the ATF has arbitrarily decided that they are and justify it with nonsense Wonderland logic.
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Nothing arbitrary about it. Read "Definitions"



This interpretation was shot down in "US vs Davis", which the ATF has chosen to ignore.
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Really? Which "US vs Davis"? There are dozens.
 
The letter states it's OK to manufacture such an item. The question I would have is - Is it OK for me to add a vertical foregrip to a gun originally manufactured as a pistol? i.e. Can I change a pistol into a firearm?
 
In Michigan at least, any weapon made to fire without a shoulder stock, that is greater than 26" long, is a "firearm", not a pistol. So technically an AR pistol with a greater OAL than 26", even if the barrel is less than 16", is not a pistol. It's a firearm, and perfectly legal to put a VFG on.

Any pistol with OAL of less than 26", no-go for a VFG.
 
Reddog, yes.

Say you have a lower with pistol buffer tube, registered originally as a pistol with a 7.5 barrel. You can switch the upper to an 11.5" upper with a VFG legally as long as it makes the OAL greater than 26". Making it a "firearm".

BUT, if you have a stockless AR with an 11.5" barrel and OAL of greater than 26" that isn't registered as a pistol, you can't put an upper on it that makes it less than 26". Then it's an unregistered pistol.

If a lower is first configured into something other than a legal pistol, it can never become a pistol. But a lower that starts as a pistol can later be configured as a "firearm" or "rifle".
 
DubC-Hicks In Michigan at least, any weapon made to fire without a shoulder stock, that is greater than 26" long, is a "firearm", not a pistol.
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That's a state law, not Federal. Federal law defines what is or isn't a pistol.




So technically an AR pistol with a greater OAL than 26", even if the barrel is less than 16", is not a pistol. It's a firearm, and perfectly legal to put a VFG on....
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An AR pistol is an AR pistol. It may also be configured as an Other Firearm. Do not confuse the two.



Say you have a lower with pistol buffer tube, registered originally as a pistol...
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There is no Federal registration of firearms. Further, there is no such thing as "pistol lower"....it's just a lower until completed as a handgun or long gun.



BUT, if you have a stockless AR with an 11.5" barrel and OAL of greater than 26" that isn't registered as a pistol, you can't put an upper on it that makes it less than 26". Then it's an unregistered pistol.
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Horsehockey.
A firearm is not a rifle until it is assembled with both a barrel of 16" or more and a shoulder stock. Until it is COMPLETELY assembled it is just a firearm.
And again, there is no such thing as a "unregistered pistol" in Federal law.



If a lower is first configured into something other than a legal pistol, it can never become a pistol. But a lower that starts as a pistol can later be configured as a "firearm" or "rifle".
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Again, wrong.
If I have an AR lower I can build it into a 16" barrel with a 27" OAL......I can call it a pistol or I can call it an Other Firearm. Neither configuration prevents subsequently building it into a rifle and then back into it's original configuration.
 
I guess you didn't understand that I was talking about Michigan.

In Michigan, there is pistol registration. Anything without a stock, barrel under 16", OAL under 26", must be registered as a pistol. An AR with a pistol buffer tube and overall length of 26"+ is not a pistol in Michigan.

And I never said there is such thing as a pistol lower, but in Michigan, if you build a stockless AR under 26", it gets registered as a pistol. The lower will always be considered a pistol in Michigan. Also, a lower that is first built into a rifle, can never be a pistol again.

I also never said that a pistol couldn't be built into rifle configuration, then back to pistol. It can. But it can't go from rifle to pistol. In Michigan.

My original post stated my comments were regarding Michigan, not federal law. I never stated I was describing federal law, I studied law and am an LEO in Michigan. Everything I stated in my comments is true, for Michigan.
 
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