Legal Shorty

S

Specter40

Inactive
So let me start out my saying I am NOT making a short barrel shotgun (sbs). I am trying to modify a cheap shotgun for a home defense/reload tester. Under the laws set forth by the BATFE under the National Firearms Act, a short barrel shotgun:

"The term "short-barreled shotgun" means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length and any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches. " So, from this law we can establish that a SBS is any shotgun that has any barrel that is less 18" and an overall length of 26" or less. I am also from Michigan and we have some other laws regarding shotguns.

"Firearm fully operable when folded or contracted with length of 30 inches or less as a pistol. A firearm containing a stock capable of being contracted or folded to an overall length of 30 inches or less and being fully operable in such contracted or folded condition is a pistol requiring licensure for purchase, carrying or transport, and is subject to safety inspection." So for Michigan the same rules apply for SBS's and also if the overall length of the weapon is under 30" it MUST be registered as a pistol.

This brings me to my question. I bought an old Savage break action single shot from my LGS for $50. I filled out and completed my BATFE form 4473 and the gun is now registered under my name. Also the gun is "pre-serial numbers" so on my ATF form 4473 the LGS used "NSN" plus some digits most likely from their records or something (I have a copy of my receipt, 4473 last page, and ebound statement to verify all data). I would like to use this gun as a reload tester for my tactical shot gun (I want the lengths and grip to match). Would I be operating within the confines of the law if I altered the shotgun in these ways?

*Cut the barrel from 28" down to 19-20"
*Cut the stock into a pistol grip
*Added a front fore grip

I measured it all out, and the overall length of the gun would be around 27". This means it is longer in both barrel length and overall length than an SBS, but under Michigan laws, it would have to be registered as a handgun.

So to recap, using the above dimensions and info, can I alter the shot gun. If so, HOW do I go about having it re-registered.

I called my local law enforcement, the state police, and even ATF. All of them were as clear as mud, and typically gave me the summarized response "I don't have to understand the laws, just enforce them..."

Help me out guys
 
I don't see the problem. From what you say it sounds as if the feds are satified that it is a shotgun and even after modificatioins it will not be a short barreled shotgun.

As for the state, did you contact the authority that licenses pistols for Michigan and what did its personnel tell you as to how and with whom it is to be registered?
 
First- the 4473 doesn't "register" anything in your name
Second - by your description of the barrel and overall length, you have met the Fed's criteria of not needing a tax stamp.

However, your state laws may require something else, and I am not familiar with MI laws in that regard

Folks post a link to handgunlaws.us or something similar - that may have some of the info you seek
 
IMHO pistol grip only shotguns are not an ideal weapon for home defense.

Go buy yourself an 18" barrel and keep the regular stock or if you MUST have a pistol grip get one with pistol grip AND shoulder stock. There are plenty of cheap AR type pistol grip/stock sets for pump shotguns from either Mossberg or Remington.
 
*Cut the barrel from 28" down to 19-20"
*Cut the stock into a pistol grip
*Added a front fore grip

I would measure/mark from the point of the prospective new muzzle to 30" aft, and position the buttstock cut there - meeting both Federal & MI law.

Depending upon the barrel length, the stock cut might fall right at the rear of the curved grip portion anyway.

Either way, I would think you'll be golden, because AFAIK, the front/pistol grip should be a non-issue.

.
 
Ok so I have been on the phone all day between the ATF, MSP and the gun store I bought it from. It is a Stevens Model 107b with no serial number (these were produced in the 30's-50's pre serial numbers. The ATF and MSP confirmed i can in fact alter it, I just need to have the gun stamped with a serial number prior. So I am on to figuring out that whole process, I'll keep you posted.
 
@Hansam, I am aware that it is not an ideal home defense shotgun. I have a Browning BPS tactical shotgun that was produced in limited quantities for home defense (20" barrel, 6 shot capacity, light rail). I basically want to use this piece of junk single shot as a reload tester for my Browning, i just want the barrel length to match my Browning . That way if i have a faulty reload, i blow up a p.o.s. shotgun rather than an expensive $300 barrel. I want the pistol grip so it is more ATV scabbard friendly, or a nice little truck gun.
 
if it just needs any serial number, make one up and have a gunsmith put it on it. You could even use part of your name and a "-1" or similar.

Larry Seecamp will do that of you want when you order one of his pistols, makes it a little more personal that way
 
to use this piece of junk single shot as a reload tester for my Browning,
Click to expand...

The barrel on your Browning is most likely stronger than this gun anyway; but what reloading are you doing where you need to do "testing"? there are published loads that have been properly pressure tested by the powder makers as being safe and falling within all the parameters
 
I have been reading up on older alternative slugs used in harder economic times. For example cut wad slugs or wax slugs. Not illegal and have been used for decades. I just would rather leave the nice ammo for my nice gun, and the junky experiment ammo for the junky beater gun. (does a man have to have a reason for another gun project? haha)
 
Well watch out for those that might make the gun explode while going for max performance! Saw a few of those over the years, not a pretty sight when an oldie decides to let go due to a proof load
 
I'll keep that in mind, thanks for the heads up. if anyone is interested, look up a Wax Slug on youtube. Pretty interesting round concept for the budget oriented slug shooter.
 
bag that

Forget all that modify business.

You ever have to shoot somebody with that thing and the defense and tort lawyers will have a field day with your "sawed off" whether it is legal or not.
Same with custom killer ammo. Why create a legal liability when easily avoided?

Save your pennies and get a pump with a deer barrel, or a coach gun for sport like in cowboy shooting. Load it with factory buckshot or slugs.
 
What kind of fore grip are you planning to put on it? With a rear pistol grip the thing is going to jump around when you pull the trigger. You probably don't want anything on the front stock that is going to cause it to unlatch in recoil.

It might be embarassing to have your home defense shotgun fall into three pieces when you went for that break-action tactical reload. :(

I might saw the barrel back to 19" but would probably leave the wood alone.
 
I took a old H&R Topper single shot,cut the barrel to 18 1/2" and cut the stock for a overall lengh of 28" then cut the recoil pad down to fit and also the fore grip. It was pretty cool, looked like a kids toy shotgun.
 
Grant D,

That sounds like my deer gun! I had an old H&R 12 gauge someone gave me. They really have heavy tubes on them. I carried it with slugs checking my traps during deer season. If I caught a fox, I popped it apart and bopped the fox with the chamber end. I live in a shotgun area now and sawed the barrel down (20") and silver soldered a steel base on the barrel. I had an old short import scope laying around and put it on. It looks ugly, but I would put it against any new smooth bore shooting slugs. Anyway, I picked up an old Stevens single shot 20 gauge for my girlfriend for in the house. I will cut it down, but not the stock. Once the barrel is 18 1/4 on a single shot, it is really short because of the receiver design. Unless you plan on sticking it in a drawer, I do not see an advantage to a pistol grip.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top