Legal Full Auto Without Special License?

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Pyrozen

New member
Ok, so I have been reading through the full auto forums and have found many varying explanations of this. I have heard there are many different ways/requirements to obtain legal full-auto weapons. 200 dollar tax stamps, class 3 license, and other odd things.

Which one of those is it or is it a multitude of different requirements? I was under the impression that you had to have a class 3 license which cost a substantial amount of money and taxes.

Can someone please set the record straight for me? Also does my state, Pennsylvania, even offer full auto firearms for purchase to the average civilian?
 
The process is fairly simple, though its long and expensive. You need to locate a so-called "transferable" machinegun - one that was made and REGISTERED with BATF prior to May 19, 1986. As an individual (not dealer or manufacturer), you cannot buy pre-sample or post sample MGs. If the gun is out of state, you'll need to have it first transfered to a class 3 dealer in PA. If its in PA, it can be transfered directly to you. Whether it comes from an individual or a dealer in your state, you'll need to do form 4 in duplicate (www.titleii.com), two FBI fingerprint cards (call BATF), one US citizenship certification, and pay a $200 transfer tax. The form 4 will require you to get a signoff from your local CLEO (Chief law Enforcement Officer - usualy a sheriff, DA, or judge with jurisdiction over the place of your residence).

If you are an FFL, you can have it transfered directly from out of state to your FFL but all other provisions apply (form 4, CLEO signoff, transfer tax, etc.). If its being transfered to a corporation, you do not need to get fingerprints or the CLEO signoff. A word of caution about corporate ownership however - you absolutely need to keep the corporation alive, pay all franchise taxes, fees, file all corporate taxes, etc. If the corporation dies or ceases to exist you will be in possession of an NFA weapon not registered to YOU (since the corporation is the legal owner). IOW the corporation makes transfers faster and easier, but is more of a headache on an annual basis.

PA is a pretty good state for machinegun ownership, though getting a signoff in some of the cities (Philly, Pittsburgh, etc.) can be difficult and may require you to go the corporate route. My dealer has a nice selection of stuff might want to check him out - www.jbarms.com
 
I will definitely check out that dealer and thanks for the good explanation. However it raises a few more questions.

What is significant about May 19, 1986?

It kind of makes me mad that I can only purchase fully automatic guns that are almost 20 years old.
 
On May 19, 1986 the Firearms Owners Protection Act (FOPA '86) took effect. Although it did some good things for gun owners, it ended the new production and registration of full autos for civilians. Thus it froze the numbers in circulation for civilians at the 1986 level and with guns being lost, destroyed, transfered out of the NFA chain (and thus becomming illegal guns subject to seizure) the number is constantly decreasing.
 
Ok now i know the "Assault Weapons" Ban was recently lifted due to its expiry. Assault weapons is in quotes because most of the requirements stated in that act were not actually assault weapon characteristics which I am sure you already know.

Will the FOPA ever come under review or expiration like the assault weapons ban and is there anything gun owners and voters can do about it?
 
Nope - no expiration date on it and it doesn't look like it'll ever be repealed by Congress (Do you think a majority of Congress would ever commit political suicide by voting to make machineguns legal again?). Unfortunately we are stuck with it.
 
Hmm that's true. It wouldn't be a good political move. The general public's hair stands on end when they hear the word "machine gun".

I am just curious then as to if it applies to machine gun's in the technical term or to any fully automatic weapon? I'm making the assumption that a machine gun would be a Browning .30 cal while an AK-47 would be considered an assault rifle. I am just using these weapons as references so I can get the definition of machine gun right.

Are the terms machine gun and fully automatic weapon one and the same?
 
Same thing.

The legal definition is found in Title 26 (26 USC 5845(b)):

The term “machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.​

If it can fire more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger, its a machinegun.
 
I'm sorry, but just so that I understand clearly, in order for me to buy a brand new MP5 full-auto, I will need to be an FFL, right?
 
Yes - and being a Class III FFL just to buy and shoot MGs is a big no-no. Just as bad as making MGs yourself, in the eyes of the gov't.
 
Pyrozen said:
It kind of makes me mad that I can only purchase fully automatic guns that are almost 20 years old.
Click to expand...
Actually, it would make me ecstatic to be able to buy a 20 year old M-60 or M-2. Here in Washington State, no CLEO will sign off so there is no point in even picking up the forms.
 
It would appear that Washington State doesn't recognize that option. Here is the Law:

"RCW 9.41.190
Unlawful firearms -- Exceptions.
(1) It is unlawful for any person to manufacture, own, buy, sell, loan, furnish, transport, or have in possession or under control, any machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle; or any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or in converting a weapon into a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle; or to assemble or repair any machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle.

(2) This section shall not apply to:

(a) Any peace officer in the discharge of official duty or traveling to or from official duty, or to any officer or member of the armed forces of the United States or the state of Washington in the discharge of official duty or traveling to or from official duty; or

(b) A person, including an employee of such person if the employee has undergone fingerprinting and a background check, who or which is exempt from or licensed under federal law, and engaged in the production, manufacture, repair, or testing of machine guns, short-barreled shotguns, or short-barreled rifles:

(i) To be used or purchased by the armed forces of the United States;

(ii) To be used or purchased by federal, state, county, or municipal law enforcement agencies; or

(iii) For exportation in compliance with all applicable federal laws and regulations.

(3) It shall be an affirmative defense to a prosecution brought under this section that the machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle was acquired prior to July 1, 1994, and is possessed in compliance with federal law.

(4) Any person violating this section is guilty of a class C felony."Unless you are selling to the military, police, or exporting, you can't even have one in your possession. Since there were none registered (no CLEO signoff) prior to the laws effect in '94 that exemption is moot as well.

Lets face it, they don't want anyone to have a Class III weapon in Washington, Legally that is. Wonder how many there really are in private hands though.
 
PM #4
shaggy
Senior Member

Join Date: 10-09-2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 611

On May 19, 1986 the Firearms Owners Protection Act (FOPA '86) took effect. Although it did some good things for gun owners, it ended the new production and registration of full autos for civilians.


________________________________


What good things did it do?
 
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