Legal barrel length

2

2DaMtns

New member
Is there a legal maximum for pistol length on a pistol? If you were to exceed 16" on a pistol barrel, is it illegal? For the moment, ignore how completely ridiculous the idea sounds. Just curious about the legality of such a behemoth.
 
I have heard of a legal shotgun length, something like over 12 or 13 inches. But I have never heard of a legal pistol length. Of course a pistol with too long of a barrel, would to me, be on the verge of qualifying as a rifle.
 
yes

I believe it is not legal. With a barrel over 16", it becomes a "sawed off rifle". AND then subject to the NFA act, as well as state laws.

I could be wrong.:confused: but I think thats what happens.
 
it only becomes a short barrel rifle if you add a stock, so the pistol the jokers pistol is legal!
500px-Batman-JokerRevolver2.JPG
 
No Federal barrel length restrictions for pistols. (State and local laws may be different.)

Previous posts have pretty much covered it. ...Barrel length doesn't matter. Just don't add a shoulder stock...
 
No Federal barrel length restrictions for pistols. (State and local laws may be different.)
Click to expand...
Funny thing about Alabama State law. They consider anything with a barrel less than 12" to be a pistol, but then specifically prohibit SBR's and SBS's:rolleyes:
§ 13A-11-70. Definitions.

(1) PISTOL. Any firearm with a barrel less than 12 inches in length.
Click to expand...
§ 13A-11-63. Possession, sale, etc., of short-barreled rifle or shortbarreled
shotgun; applicability of section.
(a) A person who possesses, obtains, receives, sells, or uses a short-barreled rifle or a
short-barreled shotgun is guilty of a Class C felony.
(b) This section does not apply to a peace officer who possesses, obtains, receives, sells,
or uses a short-barreled rifle or a short-barreled shotgun in the course of or in connection
with his official duties.
Click to expand...
 
There are no Federal restrictions on pistol barrel length. A firearm with a pistol grip only is still a handgun so long as a shoulder stock is never attached. It only becomes a SBR if you add a shoulder stock to a handgun with a barrel less than 16" and/or an overall length less than 26".


Some states, like PA, do not consider a handgun with a barrel 15" or longer to be a "firearm"(PA 18.61.6102 definition) for coverage under a LTCF. Since a non-"firearm" isn't covered with a LTCF a person cannot have one loaded in a vehicle at any time. But, non-"firearms" do not require a license to conceal or carry openly in public, except in a City of the First Class. Each state's laws are different and only the state in which you are in matters to you.
 
knight0334 There are no Federal restrictions on pistol barrel length. A firearm with a pistol grip only is still a handgun so long as a shoulder stock is never attached. It only becomes a SBR if you add a shoulder stock to a handgun with a barrel less than 16" and/or an overall length less than 26".
Click to expand...

Big Federal NOPE.
A PGO shotgun is an "Other Firearm" per ATF.

A firearm designed to be fired with one hand is a handgun.
A firearm with a shoulder stock is a long gun (rifle or shotgun).
A firearm that is not either a handgun or long gun, such as firearms having a pistol grip that expel a shotgun shell are considered "Other Firearms".
 
dogtown tom:

Big Federal NOPE.
A PGO shotgun is an "Other Firearm" per ATF.

A firearm designed to be fired with one hand is a handgun.
A firearm with a shoulder stock is a long gun (rifle or shotgun).
A firearm that is not either a handgun or long gun, such as firearms having a pistol grip that expel a shotgun shell are considered "Other Firearms".
Click to expand...



Since we were discussing handguns, it was rather moot to point that out. But since you did, we might as well point out that smoothbore pistols with barrels under 18" are AOW's.
 
1) If I were to have a handgun with, say, an 18 inch barrel, pistol grip, fore-end that is not a pistol grip, and no stock of any kind, is that legal?

1a) Does adding a sling to the above firearm change anything in any way?

2) If the barrel is longer than 16" and there is a non-pistol grip fore end, is it still illegal to attach a shoulder stock?

2b) Would it not be considered a rifle at that point? Or is it illegal to basically transform a pistol into a rifle? Seems logically illegal to cut a rifle down in size, but making a firearm larger shouldn't be illegal in my book, but we all know that's not the one that counts.
 
Last edited:
1) If I were to have a handgun with, say, an 18 inch barrel, pistol grip, fore-end that is not a pistol grip, and no stock of any kind, is that legal?

1a) Does adding a sling to the above firearm change anything in any way?

2) If the barrel is longer than 16" and there is a non-pistol grip fore end, is it still illegal to attach a shoulder stock?

2b) Would it not be considered a rifle at that point? Or is it illegal to basically transform a pistol into a rifle? Seems logically illegal to cut a rifle down in size, but making a firearm larger shouldn't be illegal in my book, but we all know that's not the one that counts.
Click to expand...

Answer to 1): Pistol grip on handgun is illegal without registration. Fore-end is ok - see Sig 556 Pistol.

Answer to 2): Yes. It's still illegal. The pistol receiver was designated as such and during manufacture and, regardless of barrel length is will ALWAYS bee deemed a pistol.

Answer to 2b): You can never transform a pistol to a rifle. They are designated as "rifle" or "pistol" during time of manufacture - no amount of modification can change the classification of a pistol or vice versa without registration on a BATFE form 1 (which is actually for the manufacture of a new weapon). In essense when you SBR a rifle or a pistol, you are manufacturing an NFA firearm and registering it as a new weapon.
 
NY state is kind of funny.

16" or more is a rifle for hunting purposes, except that if it has a pistol grip then it would be an "illegal hunting implement", but there seems to be no actual legal limit, you just can't hunt with anything over 16".
 
Quote:
1) If I were to have a handgun with, say, an 18 inch barrel, pistol grip, fore-end that is not a pistol grip, and no stock of any kind, is that legal?

1a) Does adding a sling to the above firearm change anything in any way?

2) If the barrel is longer than 16" and there is a non-pistol grip fore end, is it still illegal to attach a shoulder stock?

2b) Would it not be considered a rifle at that point? Or is it illegal to basically transform a pistol into a rifle? Seems logically illegal to cut a rifle down in size, but making a firearm larger shouldn't be illegal in my book, but we all know that's not the one that counts.

Answer to 1): Pistol grip on handgun is illegal without registration. Fore-end is ok - see Sig 556 Pistol.

Answer to 2): Yes. It's still illegal. The pistol receiver was designated as such and during manufacture and, regardless of barrel length is will ALWAYS bee deemed a pistol.

Answer to 2b): You can never transform a pistol to a rifle. They are designated as "rifle" or "pistol" during time of manufacture - no amount of modification can change the classification of a pistol or vice versa without registration on a BATFE form 1 (which is actually for the manufacture of a new weapon). In essense when you SBR a rifle or a pistol, you are manufacturing an NFA firearm and registering it as a new weapon.
Click to expand...


this excludes encores, you can legaly convert from pistol to rifle, but not vice versa
 
There have been many pistols with + 16" barrels that were legally sold with shoulder stocks.
Perhaps rulings have changed, but it used to be legal.
 
Skans
Quote:
1) If I were to have a handgun with, say, an 18 inch barrel, pistol grip, fore-end that is not a pistol grip, and no stock of any kind, is that legal?
ATF has determined that a handgun is a firearm designed to be fired with one hand. A 10" AR pistol can easily be fired with one hand, an 18 incher is another story.

1a) Does adding a sling to the above firearm change anything in any way?

2) If the barrel is longer than 16" and there is a non-pistol grip fore end, is it still illegal to attach a shoulder stock?

2b) Would it not be considered a rifle at that point? Or is it illegal to basically transform a pistol into a rifle? Seems logically illegal to cut a rifle down in size, but making a firearm larger shouldn't be illegal in my book, but we all know that's not the one that counts.
Click to expand...

Answer to 1): Pistol grip on handgun is illegal without registration. Fore-end is ok - see Sig 556 Pistol.
Huh? All my handguns have a pistol grip. None are registered.You may be thinking of a vertical grip ATTACHED to an existing handgun- making it an AOW.

Answer to 2): Yes. It's still illegal. The pistol receiver was designated as such and during manufacture and, regardless of barrel length is will ALWAYS bee deemed a pistol.
Nope. No manufacturer "designates" a frame, receiver or lower as a "pistol" or rifle- the firearm simply meets the ATF definition.. Per ATF, these are considered as "Other Firearms". When a stripped AR lower arrives from a manufacturer to me it isn't designated as a long gun or handgun- it is an "Other Firearm". My customer, when he builds out that AR lower can choose to make it an AR pistol or AR rifle.

Answer to 2b): You can never transform a pistol to a rifle. Sure you can, you cannot however, turn a long gun into a handgun without paying for a tax stamp.

They are designated as "rifle" or "pistol" during time of manufacture - no amount of modification can change the classification of a pistol or vice versa without registration on a BATFE form 1 (which is actually for the manufacture of a new weapon). In essense when you SBR a rifle or a pistol How do you SBR a pistol??? , you are manufacturing an NFA firearm and registering it as a new weapon.
Click to expand...

Bill DeShivs There have been many pistols with + 16" barrels that were legally sold with shoulder stocks.
Perhaps rulings have changed, but it used to be legal.
Click to expand...


Wait long enough and someone at ATF will change their mind.

ATF issues "Determination Letters" from it's Technical Branch when asked for clarification of regulations. ATF has no searchable database of these letters, apparently they are tossed in a big file cabinet that is not indexed.

This is why there are often conflicting determinations. For example, in the '80's ATF Technical Branch said reproduction wood stock/holsters were okay when attached to a tangent sighted Inglis Hi Power (no tax stamp needed). In the '90's ATF Technical Branch said the stock holster had to be an original.
 
This thread and all the well-intentioned, sometimes contradictory answers has just confused the heck out of me. Just to pick one:

"Barrel length doesn't matter. Just don't add a shoulder stock..."

Why not?

I know a guy with an 18" Uberti like the picture posted above and it came from the factory with a detachable shoulder stock.

Without the shoulder stock it is a SAA clone and only a very knowledgeable person could tell (by closely inspecting the frame) that it can accept the stock. Without the stock it is just a revolver with a very long barrel.

With the stock attached I guess it could be considered a rifle, but the barrel is longer than the minimum requirement for a rifle, so why would there be a problem?

As I said, I'm confused. :(
 
I know a guy with an 18" Uberti like the picture posted above and it came from the factory with a detachable shoulder stock.

Without the shoulder stock it is a SAA clone and only a very knowledgeable person could tell (by closely inspecting the frame) that it can accept the stock. Without the stock it is just a revolver with a very long barrel.

With the stock attached I guess it could be considered a rifle, but the barrel is longer than the minimum requirement for a rifle, so why would there be a problem?

As I said, I'm confused.
Click to expand...

There probably isn't a problem.

There's also the Thompson Center Encore and Contender guns.

They have interchangeable barrels AND stocks.

There is no legal problem with having the rifle barrel with the pistol grip stock, excepting local laws. There IS a problem having the shoulder stock and pistol barrel, it makes the gun a Short Barreled Rifle and would require, at least, a tax stamp from ATF.

There are other complications too, though I don't know if they're national or local. For instance, if I buy an Encore pistol in NY then I can not SELL IT as a rifle. I can use it as one, and freely switch it back and forth so long as I never combine the pistol barrel and the rifle stock, but it is forever a "handgun" for sale purposes.

For the really stupid part..... if I buy an Encore as a rifle, in NY, then it is forever a rifle. It can not be converted by me to a handgun, it can not be registered on my handgun permit so that I CAN convert it to a handgun. It would be illegal to do so under any circumstances, even though the actual weapon itself would be completely indistinguishable from one that was purchased as a handgun and converted, perfectly legally, to a rifle.:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
and even that is debatable! there are atf letters that state once an encore has been converted from pistol to rifle you cannot convert it back, as you would be converting a rifle to a pistol!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top