Left vs 2nd & 1st Amendments?

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There's little doubt that the left is no friend of either the first or second amendments. I think we'll find that all gun control legislation ever written has originated in a leftist mind. And all the leftist "political correctness" free-speech-silencing tantrums are eerily reminiscent of the communists of the Soviet Union. They're all for free speech, as long as only they can speak. They're quite ready and willing to punish anybody who doesn't want to toe their party line. Like I said, very Soviet-like.
 
It also applies to the Left when it comes to Religion. You are free to express your religious views, as long as they don't hear it, then their tloerance goes out the window. For some unknown reason, they believe that they have a right to not be offended---I'm not sure where in the Constitution it says anybody has the right not to be offended. You don't like what I have to say-----tough---get over it.
 
JimW, that is utter garbage. What the Left doesn't like is when religious folk observe their religion in public, with shades of State support. Whether you're Christian or Muslim or Buddhist, if you want to create minor drama by praying in public with tacit or open governmental support -- particularly when you know those around you aren't all of your religion -- be prepared for minor discomfort, manifested in various ways, from those around you. "They have no cause for discomfort," you might claim. Except if you look at the policies your religion espouses, you'll find that those who don't subscribe to your religion do have cause to be concerned about your religion as far as it aspires to affect the law.

If religion had no effect whatever on government at any level, do you honestly think the areligious would treat the religious with anything other than tacit disapproval or bemusement?

"Having wreaked havoc," said the New York Sun, they unfurled a banner in Arabic and English that said, "No one is ever illegal."
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I'll be sure to carry a matching banner while I go into Mexico carrying guns.

Brian Rohrbough said violence entered our schools when we threw God out of them. "This country is in a moral freefall. For over two generations the public school system has taught in a moral vacuum. . . . We teach there are no moral absolutes, no right or wrong, and I assure you the murder of innocent children is always wrong, including abortion.
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They just can't wait to bring up abortion, can they?

Maybe if students took the lack of moral absolutes to heart, the "jocks" wouldn't pick on the outcasts/goths/whoever. That's a large part of what motivates violence, not lack of moral absolutes. Humans instinctually do not like killing each other, for the most part. All the morals in the world won't keep psychopaths or those with poor tempers from hurting others.
 
tyme,

You of all people should know that religious views are not tolerated by the left or non believers. Heck, half of the moderators on this forum throw a fit with any mention of God or religion. They will shut down a thread in a heart beat. Same goes for the left when you apply your beliefs on subjects such as abortion etc...they shut down right away and totally disregard one's beliefs.
 
You of all people should know that religious views are not tolerated by the left or non believers. Heck, half of the moderators on this forum throw a fit with any mention of God or religion. They will shut down a thread in a heart beat. Same goes for the left when you apply your beliefs on subjects such as abortion etc...they shut down right away and totally disregard one's beliefs.
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You gotta be kidding? For those of us that don't want to hear your views on religion, we're free to turn away. This is not your personal forum, if it were, I'm sure you'd skew the posts your way given the oppurtunity. If you don't like what happens here, don't post here.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde
 
You gotta be kidding? For those of us that don't want to hear your views on religion, we're free to turn away. This is not your personal forum, if it were, I'm sure you'd skew the posts your way given the oppurtunity. If you don't like what happens here, don't post here.
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What a shock--another anti in California.:rolleyes: Make up your mind---am I allowed to speak my opinion and you turn away, or am I censored, so don't have to listen? I can't remeber how many times the Mods seem to like to "meddle" when the discussion turns to religion. Tough break that the majority of people in the USA consider themselves to be religious---but you and others feel the "right" that your minority shouldn't have the 1st amendment applied to you when religion is the subject. No matter the politics of abortion, capital punishment etc...my stances do rely on religious beliefs and I do incorporate them into the relative discussion. You don't have the same beliefs---fine---but that doesn't dismiss the arguement for those of us who do.
 
Of faith and politics...

Bad mixture really, a lot of people that decide "Let's mix religion into our politics" fail to read the First Amendment, they overlook the neutrality of the statement. Also, one can EASILY have morality WITHOUT religion. (Anyone remember the Natural Rights? Those were things the Founding Fathers were trying to establish when they were debating over what to put in the Bill of Rights. Those ideas are beyond the scope of any one religion.) I'd have to agree with tyme's statement on kids in school causing violence, it's not because of lack of morality from no religion, it's because schools don't do anything to try to curb the bullying popular kids from picking on the lesser and outcast kids. When those kids who are always being victimized day in and day out with no one listening or intervening what do you think happens? Those kids snap and feel justified in killing their tormentors, and in their minds they're right and the rest of the world can have the middle finger.

I would agree that society has no morals left anymore, however that doesn't mean we need to institute a religion favored by the state. I mean, why is it that gay marrige is not okay with most Republicans? Because it violates "the sanctity of marrige"?:barf: :barf: :barf: When your divorce rate is the highest in the world, you have no validity behind that statement. If you're the model of the free world how come other countries abolished slavery, allowed women equal status, etc. first? When you have one religion trumping the government socially, you go nowhere. This should remain a secular country, because a step in favor of one religion over another is a step toward a theocracy.


Epyon
 
quote>> What a shock--another anti in California. Make up your mind---am I allowed to speak my opinion and you turn away, or am I censored, so don't have to listen? I can't remeber how many times the Mods seem to like to "meddle" when the discussion turns to religion. Tough break that the majority of people in the USA consider themselves to be religious---but you and others feel the "right" that your minority shouldn't have the 1st amendment applied to you when religion is the subject. No matter the politics of abortion, capital punishment etc...my stances do rely on religious beliefs and I do incorporate them into the relative discussion. You don't have the same beliefs---fine---but that doesn't dismiss the arguement for those of us who do.<<quote MoW
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Another anti, not in this lifetime.

I believe religion is a personal choice, just like owning and using guns. If it weren't for the 1st amendment being tied to the 14th, your FREEDOM of speech could be curtailed in an instant in any state that chose to do so.

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Notice how it says only Congress shall make no law, it doesn't say anything about the states, counties, or cities regulating your speech, religion, or right to peaceably assemble whatsoever, the 14th takes care of that issue.


Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Now, here's the difference, see where it says SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED, by anyone.

BTW, isn't it funny that I use my real name and location when I post.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde
 
You of all people should know that religious views are not tolerated by the left or non believers. Heck, half of the moderators on this forum throw a fit with any mention of God or religion. They will shut down a thread in a heart beat.
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Yup, and your posts here explain why. ;)
You know nothing about my religious "beliefs". Know why? Like most of our Members, I don't think this is the place to proselytize them, hang them on my sleeve or debate them. Nor do I think it somehow my birthright to post such opinions here.

Same goes for the left when you apply your beliefs on subjects such as abortion etc...they shut down right away and totally disregard one's beliefs.
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I feel your pain. And, to think how you listen patiently to the Godless, LeftWingers regarding their atheism. Somehow, I find that hard to believe. Fact is, it's their right to ignore you, just as it's yours to ignore them. The Constitution guarantees you no audience. Get over it or die with it on your mind. ;)

I never cease to be amazed by people who decry the trampling of their First Amendment Rights, when their very rant demonstrates that they haven't the first idea of what that Amendment actually protects. :rolleyes:

MoW-
Your last post was positively incomprehensible. Slow down.

Rich
 
What about the right's attacks on the first amendment? Which side is all for the FCC controlling language, violence and sex on TV? Is it the left or right claiming that "traditional family values" ought to prevent us from seeing a nipple on NBC or hearing the f-word on Fox?
 
No matter the politics of abortion, capital punishment etc...my stances do rely on religious beliefs and I do incorporate them into the relative discussion. You don't have the same beliefs---fine---but that doesn't dismiss the arguement for those of us who do.
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You religious folk, get it through your heads... what you want is not a discussion or argument, but a soapbox from which to preach your unarguable platitudes.

How exactly is one supposed to respond to statements such as, "[My religion says that] 1st-trimester abortion is murder of an unborn child?"

As demonstrated over and over again, there is no successful response. Anything we heathens say will be completely ignored in favor of the assertions of your religion.
 
You know nothing about my religious "beliefs". Know why? Like most of our Members, I don't think this is the place to proselytize them, hang them on my sleeve or debate them. Nor do I think it somehow my birthright to post such opinions here.
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You'd be surprised at how easy it is to learn about people's religious beliefs/lack there of just by reading their posts, Signature, or Bio. Sorry, but incorporating my beliefs into a political discussion doesn't equate to proselytizing. People sometimes want to know how or what I am basing my conclusions on---SOMETIMES my religious beliefs(such as on abortion) are indeed germane.
I feel your pain. And, to think how you listen patiently to the Godless, LeftWingers regarding their atheism. Somehow, I find that hard to believe. Fact is, it's their right to ignore you, just as it's yours to ignore them. The Constitution guarantees you no audience. Get over it or die with it on your mind.

I never cease to be amazed by people who decry the trampling of their First Amendment Rights, when their very rant demonstrates that they haven't the first idea of what that Amendment actually protects.
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I promise you I listen to the Godless, Left Wing, Atheists AT LEAST as much as you listen to the gun antis.;) Never said I was guaranteed an audience. My only beef(as far as the Mods go) is that my beliefs be tolerated or allowed to express on the same level as those who don't. Again, ANY religious conotations are met with disdain, snide remarks, or shut down---while those with opposing views(for example atheists) are allowed to express their thoughts or views without any censorship. See Yourtube for example. For you to actually try and portray that there isn't a double standard on this issue is simply disingenious on your part.:(
 
tyme,

You religious folk, get it through your heads... what you want is not a discussion or argument, but a soapbox from which to preach your unarguable platitudes.
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When will you non religious folk get it thru your heads, this country is made up of Christians with beliefs that are based on Biblical teachings. This country, our Constitution and Laws are derived from Christian values---like it or not.

How exactly is one supposed to respond to statements such as, "[My religion says that] 1st-trimester abortion is murder of an unborn child?"
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I don't know, how exactly is one supposed to respond to statements such as "1st-trimester abortion is NOT murder of an unborn child"---Disbelief?

As demonstrated over and over again, there is no successful response. Anything we heathens say will be completely ignored in favor of the assertions of your religion.
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As demonstrated over and over again, there is no successful response. Anything we Christians say will be completely ignored in favor of the assertions of you beliefs.
 
You of all people should know that religious views are not tolerated by the left or non believers.
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That is one of the most ignorant statements I've read. I'm athiest and find it funny that even though I've never tried to convince someone to stop believing in their religion, I am continually told how I should find God by those filled with religious conviction.
Just in case you're wondering I wasn't raised by heathens, my sister graduated from Oral Roberts University and has always been active in religion. So, I don't think it has to do with upbringing, I was active in the church until I was old enough to make the decision for myself that I couldn't buy into what the church was selling. It has to do with a personal choice.
I have no problem with prayer in school, I have no problem with the ten commandments in a court room, I have no problem with you practicing your religion. Just don't push your beliefs onto me and then act shocked if I don't agree with you and then act as if I'm less "enlightened" about the ways of the world because I don't believe that the bible is the answer to everything evil.
I've never had a problem with people and their religious choices, all I ask is give me the same courtesy I extend to you. I don't try to convince you to stop believing, don't try to convince me to believe.
 
When will you non religious folk get it thru your heads, this country is made up of Christians with beliefs that are based on Biblical teachings. This country, our Constitution and Laws are derived from Christian values---like it or not.
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No, it's made up of christians, jews, muslims, buddhists, pagans, wiccans, hindus, taoists, unitarians, scientologists, jedi, and so on and so forth. Our constitution and laws are there to make sure that mob rule doesn't take over so that every taoist and muslim has the same rights to practice his or her religion as much as christians.

Our laws are not derived from christian values. Christianity does not have a monopoly on the idea that homocide is a crime. The idea that theft is morally wrong existed long before christianity and will exist long after it's gone. Our laws are derived from many sources as are the laws of christianity.

I don't know, how exactly is one supposed to respond to statements such as "1st-trimester abortion is NOT murder of an unborn child"---Disbelief?
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The only certainty in this argument is that it will continue as long as any other. Neither science nor religion can define life beyond no uncertain terms and neither deserves to do so. At the end of the day your definition of life may be different than mine so I don't believe either side can claim it has the upper hand.
 
I have no problem with prayer in school, I have no problem with the ten commandments in a court room,
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My only problem with those is that those same people wouldn't want muslim laws in a courtroom or to have a teacher point everyone to mecca during the school day. Cater to all religions or cater to none. Anything else goes against the very idea of free belief.
 
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