Lee turret powder measure lesson to share

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Lee turret's powder measure - lesson to share

In hindsight I feel like I was not really with it, but in my frustration to verify my powder drop I couldn't get the case-activated measure to slide all the way, enough to align the drop hole and drop tube for a full measure. It finally occurred to me that I kept using the same case that had already been expanded. It wasn't causing enough resistance on the expander plug to fully activate the measure. The first time I tried a difference case, it worked perfectly. So, at a minimum, once I draw a sample powder drop, I have to reach for a different case, segregating any I already used. I can't resize the case or I will punch out the primer and leak powder, invalidating the sample.

Simple stuff maybe, but it had me going for awhile. This was 44 Special, but in hindsight I now understand why I have had problems re-verifying powder loads with other caliber setups. This is a lesson that will stick. It just helps to understand the principles of what is going on with the machine.
 
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You live and learn. You are expanding the mouths too much, you will have case failure by doing this. Thse case mouth only needs to be expanded by 0.020 inch to accept the bullet without any problem. Raise your powder through die.

Jim
 
You live and learn. You are expanding the mouths too much, you will have case failure by doing this. Thse case mouth only needs to be expanded by 0.020 inch to accept the bullet without any problem. Raise your powder through die.
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No, I don't need that condescension. I am using the right equipment, and my expander is correctly adjusted. The PTX and the next expander station give the same bullet fit as far as I can tell. The bullet sits straight up in the case mouth and there is no real flare, definitely not excessive. If I back off the PTX, the powder measure won't slide all the way. Happily, it is about as perfect as one could want at maximum adjustment, which I am saying in this report is not optional. It has to be max to make the powder measure work. I am not using the shorter 44 Mag PTX BTW. I have three other 44 Special PTXs that I got from Lee, I forget why, and they are all the same. The 44 Mag PTX that came with the powder through die is shorter.

Give me a break. Everything is working now, and the ammo coming out is beautiful.
 
Thanks for sharing but I have never had to grab another case...mine works fine using a flared case over and over when checking powder drops. Never have had an issue like you experienced.
 
It's been several years so i don't remember the exact details but I had an issue with a LEE case operated powder die not dropping the complete charge due to apparent insufficient slide travel. I ended up cutting a bevel on one side of the drop hole to make it work correctly. Has worked ever since just fine.
 
Thanks for sharing your experience.

Thanks for sharing your experience. One of the main reasons for this forum is so we can help each other.

The conclusion Jim243 was the same conclusion that first leapt to my mind. If a case is, indeed, flared too much, it may not activate the auto-disk powder measure fully, especially if there is a lot of friction or the return spring is very strong.

While his suggestion was terse, Jim243's posting history does not show a tendency towards snarkiness, I think. In any event, if (I say, "if") you are flaring more than necessary (nd/or crimping, especially for revolver guys using a roll crimp), case mouth cracks will occur sooner. Cold working the brass makes it brittle and the more it is worked the sooner it happens.

It is a reasonable assumption that if a flared case hasn't enough friction on the flaring mandrel, that the inner diameter of the flared case is too large. Such behavior implies the case is being worked beyond it elastic deformation limit.

So, I have another speculation: Since you have testified that you are minimally flaring, I wonder if these cases are a little less ductile (springy) than others? What brand are they? How many times have they been reloaded?

What do you think?

Lost Sheep
 
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Brass is all Starline, guessing reloaded 2-3 times.

Note that even at its best, the brass cannot drive the powder measure enough to force a real bell. The expander plug is not long enough for that. The PTX plug is mostly just tapered. The bullet sits in the case mouth the same, near as I can tell, after the PTX as after the next station expander, as nicely as I could want. I tried the expander alone, so I am sure of that. It's all good now.
 
Just curious, do you have the die adjusted properly? I am only asking because I have the same powder measured set up on my 9 mm, 38 spl, and 45 acp and can run the same case in and out many times for a powder check without issue.
 
Just curious, do you have the die adjusted properly? I am only asking because I have the same powder measured set up on my 9 mm, 38 spl, and 45 acp and can run the same case in and out many times for a powder check without issue.
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From what I can tell the problem is unique to the 44 Special setup. I load the following on the Lee turret without similar problems:

32 S&W Long
32 H&R Magnum
327 Federal Magnum
41 Magnum
44 Magnum
44-40
45 Colt

What makes 44 Special unique is that the PTX plug is not long enough to adjust into overbelling range, like it would be for many other caliber versions.

I have a complete turret for each caliber, a luxury enabled by Lee prices. I did check that the problem was not a rogue powder measure. I had (4) PTXs for 44 Special, I forget why that many, and they all measured the same and appeared to have the same belling profile.

I have two sizers, one Lee and one RCBS Cowboy. Interestingly, the Lee yields a slightly larger diameter case using fired cases from the same batch of Starline. The Lee yields .450 OD, while the RCBS Cowboy consistently yields .448. I use the RCBS, since the whole die set is RCBS Cowboy in support of my Meister 200 Gr .430 RNFP bullets. Normally the sizer would be larger than standard but not in this case, which is better for driving the powder measure.

Again, nothing is out of adjustment. It is now working perfectly, no apparent detriment to the brass.
 
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"PTX" ????
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I use that to mean POWDER THROUGH EXPANDER and believe it is a conventional acronym. The case rises on the press and meets the expander plug. Continued rise of the ram activates the powder measure, which drops powder Through the hole in the expander plug. Once the powder measure movement maxes out, additional force causes the case to be pushed far enough onto the plug to engage the belling portion at the base of the plug. The adjustment of the die itself controls how far the case can rise and then how much belling or flare can be imparted to the case mouth.
 
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Just wondering, what is a "turret powder measure"? Is it the disc type? (LADM or LPADM?). Many powder measures can be used on a turret press, so is there only one that can be used on a Lee turret press? (aka LTP, either LCTP, or LDTP) :rolleyes:
 
Just wondering, what is a "turret powder measure"? Is it the disc type? (LADM or LPADM?). Many powder measures can be used on a turret press, so is there only one that can be used on a Lee turret press? (aka LTP, either LCTP, or LDTP)
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Lee only makes one kind, but I also use a Hornady on one of my turret setups. In this case I was referring to Lee's powder measure, which is case-activated and spring loaded, so it can operate and rotate without being dependent upon a stationary connection to the press like the Dillon measure.

I will edit the title of the thread and see if it will better convey what I am talking about.
 
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Well no, lee makes 2 measures , the standard disc measure and the pro disc measure. They are about to release another one that will work on the turret, AND be infinitely adjustable.

The PTE OR PTX expander plug is made to operate the powder disc slide fully as it completes the belling operation. This is achieved by adjusting the entire expander die down until it stops, then the last bit of movement completes the slide travel
 
Well no, lee makes 2 measures , the standard disc measure and the pro disc measure. They are about to release another one that will work on the turret, AND be infinitely adjustable.

The PTE OR PTX expander plug is made to operate the powder disc slide fully as it completes the belling operation. This is achieved by adjusting the entire expander die down until it stops, then the last bit of movement completes the slide travel AND bells the case.
 
Well no, lee makes 2 measures , the standard disc measure and the pro disc measure. They are about to release another one that will work on the turret, AND be infinitely adjustable.
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The only difference is the hopper. The mechanics (and the parts) below that are identical. I use the older style box hopper, which is now delivered clear instead of translucent red.

The PTE OR PTX expander plug is made to operate the powder disc slide fully as it completes the belling operation. This is achieved by adjusting the entire expander die down until it stops, then the last bit of movement completes the slide travel AND bells the case.
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You can say that, but my 44 Special doesn't work that way, because the expander plug is too short to over bell. No problem on other calibers. Yes, I am using the longer of the 44 Mag plug and the 44 Special plug (longer one).
 
The only difference is the hopper. The mechanics (and the parts) below that are identical. I use the older style box hopper, which is now delivered clear instead of translucent red.
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Nope. The old disc measure, the whole measure is turned/screwed into the top of the expander die. The pro measure, the threaded portion turns independently from the hopper. This allows the measure itself to stay stationary while screwing the bottom of the measure . Also the pro has a shut off in the base of the hopper to allow the changing of the discs WITHOUT having to tip the standard hopper over to empty it to allow the discs to be changed.
 
It finally occurred to me that I kept using the same case that had already been expanded. It wasn't causing enough resistance on the expander plug to fully activate the measure.
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This had me going for a second....:eek:... I use the same case over and over an over again with all the handgun calibers I load for without any issues using the Lee pro auto disc with the powder through/expander die. I use a case from each caliber with a spent primer pressed into the primer cup. When I return that calibers turret back to it's container the (my terminology) powder test case goes in with it...;)
 
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