Lead Poisoning

Bella

New member
How real is the lead poisoning concern? Even hunting is being affected by this. Lead has been banned for waterfowl hunting because if a duck ingests lead pellets it will die. Some jurisdictions are even banning lead projectiles for big game hunting.

I am not a scientist or doctor. But do enjoy watching those ER shows. I have seen gunshot victims that doctors decide to leave the bullet in because trying to remove it would cause more harm. In fact, in one case the doctor said they consider a bullet sterile.

Now, if lead is so toxic, wouldn't leaving a bullet in someone be unwise?

I want to hear from members that have scientific or medical backgrounds. Is elemental lead as poisonous as some say?
 
Every person alive has injested lead as it is naturally occurring in the environment. Lead only becomes a problem in the body when the concentration becomes to high and then it interferes with neurological function. You have a greater chance of injesting lead by drinking water then from a stray shotgun pellet. This is because up till the early 1970s copper pipe that is commomly still in use in houses was jointed using solder that contained lead.

In the Republic of California the anti hunters have used lead poisoning as an issue to support their cause by using bad science in relation to the disappearing California Condor. This is why there is a lead hunting bullet ban in that state.

You probably have fillings in your teeth with dental amalgum which is an alloy of mercury yet where is the mass hysteria about that?

Do you believe everything you watch on TV? A projectlile picks up contaminants as it travels through air or material so once it is in the human body it sure aint sterile.
 
Metallic lead is pretty inert. Leaving a bullet (metallic lead) in a person will be a minimal risk.

When lead is eaten the acids in the digestive system can break it down enough to cause problems. When lead compounds are eaten it's even worse.

So there is some justification for limiting metallic lead in situations where wildlife might consume significant quantities of it. This was the rationale for limiting lead shot in waterfowl hunting. The theory was that the lead shot could be consumed by the waterfowl and cause lead poisoning. Because of the way birds' digestive systems work, they will supposedly absorb a good deal of lead from eating even a small amount of metallic lead.

From a shooting perspective, assuming good shooting hygiene is maintained (no eating, drinking, smoking, touching your face while shooting or cleaning guns--cleaning up carefully afterwards--not handling lead without washing up afterwards, etc.) the primary means of lead contamination is inhaling discharge smoke.
 
I don't know enough about lead ingestion by animals or birds to comment, but I lost a good friend who was far too young to die because he reloaded and cast bullets for years without taking any precautions. There was no doubt at all that the lead poisoning was the cause of death. It takes a while, but it will do the job.

As to surgeons leaving a bullet or shot in a person, even one bullet or one pellet can do damage, but after while the body builds up a shell around it and damage is limited. Even so, there is a balance; if removing the object can be done only at a 95% risk of killing the patient immediately, leaving it alone to cause problems in 50 years is a good tradeoff.

Jim
 
I have 2 great uncles who both shot themselves in the leg with lead bullets when they were boys (quick draw) the bullet was found by a doctor years later and told them it be best to leave it. One of them is still alive. He is 93 years old now, and the bullet is still there
 
Lead poisoning is almost as overblown as the Ebola scare.

The only time when lead is a significant danger is when you're breathing high concentrations of lead dust into your lungs. Any heavy metal is toxic in high enough doses, lead takes significant time and exposure in many cases before you start noticing ill effects. In many cases it takes years, or even decades of exposure.


Plenty of people with lead bullets in their bodies that are walking around fine. There's people with lead bullets sitting inside their brain/brain cavity, as we speak, that survived headshots, and even after years, poisoning from lead is still the least of their concerns.
 
Actually, it isn't overblown. The toxicity of lead depends on the route by which it enters the body and on what form it's in: lead compounds, especially the organic ones such as tetraethyl lead (which used to be added to gasoline), are far more toxic than inorganic lead

Lead poisoning has declined significantly in recent decades in countries where use of lead in consumer products has been reduced or eliminated -- in the US, its use in gasoline has been eliminated, and its use in paint has been limited to applications in which there is minimal risk of human exposure, such as on bridges. However, industrial use still releases lead into the environment, where children are especially at risk; the major risk to adults at this point is from industrial exposures.

A bullet in the body isn't broken down and absorbed physiologically, so it doesn't present nearly the risk of lead that's eaten, inhaled, or absorbed through the skin.
 
The risks of exposure to lead are most certainly not overblown. Lead is among the most studied environmental contaminants, and we know a great deal about exposure pathways and the effect of lead on the human body. Any shooter who chooses to believe otherwise, almost certainly doing so with total ignorance of the extensive body of scientific literature on lead toxicity, is deluding themselves and potentially compromising their own health and that of their families due to lead contamination brought home from the range on clothing and shoes. Young children are particularly sensitive to lead because their nervous systems are still developing, and numerous studies have shown reduced IQ scores due to lead contamination.

So, there is absolutely no question that lead in the body can lead to a variety of health problems; the only remaining question is whether our shooting hobby can result in concentrations sufficiently high to be of concern, and unfortunately the evidence is overwhelming that it can. The primary route of lead exposure for most shooters is inhalation of particulate lead, derived both from lead bullets and lead styphnate priming compound, in indoor ranges, although there are indications that exposure at outdoor ranges may also be problematical. (As an aside, arguments I've seen that lead is "too heavy" to be suspended in air are nonsensical and show a total lack of understanding of the settling behavior of very small particles in a fluid.) Just about all (100%) of inhaled lead passes into the bloodstream through the lining of the lungs. A secondary route of exposure is ingestion of lead, usually as a result of eating after handling lead without first washing the hands. Although the studies I've reviewed have reached somewhat different conclusions, it looks like 40% or so of ingested lead enters the body. Elemental lead does not pass through the skin, so handling lead during reloading (for example) is not a problem, except as it may result in ingestion. I have not been able to find any information in the scientific literature regarding whether lead that may become dissolved in common gun cleaning solvents will pass through the skin, but prudent shooters will assume that it can and take appropriate precautions.

The route by which the lead enters the body doesn't affect its toxicity - what's important is the body burden as measured in the blood (serum). The current guidelines issued by CDC are less than 10 mcg/dl (micrograms per deciliter) for adults, and half that for children. I wouldn't be surprised if those numbers are lowered in the future based on additional research. Shooters should ask their doctor to add lead as an analyte to the blood test done for their routine physicals and, if these concentrations are exceeded, take steps to identify exposure routes and ways to reduce exposure. As an example, I was able to reduce my serum lead concentration from about 31 mcg/dl to 7 mcg/dl in about two years by wearing a respirator when shooting indoors.

Because the OP asked for input from scientists, I'll just briefly summarize my background: Over 40 years experience as an environmental scientist working in (among other technical disciplines) hazardous waste site remediation, environmental toxicology, and human health risk assessment. With a couple of partners, I own an environmental consulting/engineering company and serve/have served as a consultant to EPA, several other Federal and state agencies, and numerous corporations.
 
I wrote this article many years ago with the help of a doctor.

As a engineer, I also work in the area of hazardous waste (Full HAZWOPER Certifications) and remediation as well as helping ranges with their environmental impact surveys and lead reclamation.

Overblown? Yes and No. As some have mentioned, the delivery route has an impact on the take-up rate. Most "shooters" have elevated levels due to inhalation of lead dust or vapors.

There are some studies that refute the lead poisoning issues related to wildlife. One basically said that the exposure is so minimal and the life span is so short that the chances of any lead poisoning is almost impossible. Another where some commercial production chicken facilities fed lead shot to the chickens (both egg and meat production varieties) and basically dared the FDA to test the products...the amount of lead detected was the same or less than other flocks the FDA compared the test data with.
 
There is a group that wants to totally remove ALL lead from the environment .This group is where much of the anti-lead comes from !
 
Most "shooters" have elevated levels due to inhalation of lead dust or vapors.
I do not believe that is accurate. Where are your statistics to back that up. If they are elevated, I doubt they are significantly so. I spent the last year digging up lead from berms, smelting it and casting bullets, and shooting them (hundreds of hours). After all of this, my lead level was low: a 4 (40 is the action level). I've had a LOT more exposure to lead than the average shooter gets in a year. I do take simple measures to ensure I don't ingest lead (good house keeping, washing hands...etc.). Based on my experience, and what I've read, I find the above statement almost impossible to believe.
 
mete said:
There is a group that wants to totally remove ALL lead from the environment
Can you provide us with a link to this group?
Jayhawkhuntclub said:
The war against lead is based almost solely on politics and not on legitimate health or environmental worries.
Given the extensive documentation of the health risks of lead -- what's your evidence for this? This comment seems odd, in light of your comments about the precautions you take to avoid lead poisoning.
 
Given the extensive documentation of the health risks of lead -- what's your evidence for this? This comment seems odd, in light of your comments about the precautions you take to avoid lead poisoning.
I'm not an expert. However, lead occurs naturally in the environment. It is not dangerous in most forms. There are exceptions, sure. Like shooting at a poorly ventilated indoor range. Lead is not the toxic boogie man the liberals want you to believe it is. How many people have gotten lead poisoning from lead wheel weights? It's not about toxicity. It's about politics.
This comment seems odd, in light of your comments about the precautions you take to avoid lead poisoning.
That's funny. Yeah, I'm pretty cautious... I wash my hands!:rolleyes:
 
MarkCO: While I disagree with the comment in your post (at least as I understand it), I thought the article was great. I did not know about the whole genital/anal skin absorption issue. :eek:
 
Jayhawkhuntclub said:
... lead occurs naturally in the environment. It is not dangerous in most forms.
Yes, it does occur naturally in the environment: underground. The fact that it's present in our environment is almost entirely due to human activity: it's been mined for thousands of years.

And it's not accurate to say that it's not dangerous in most forms; it's dangerous in all forms, but more in some than in others.

This article is a good source for the history of human use of lead, and of the understanding of its toxicity.

It's a political issue only insofar as those with a vested interest in its continued use have attempted to minimize its dangers; as this article notes, those attempts go back to the Romans.
 
2damnedold4this said:
Here is a link to the CDC study of lead in venison.
Respectfully, the CDC is so lacking in credibility right about now that I won't even click your link. Even before the Ebola debacle, wasn't the CDC one of the driving forces behind the movement to classify firearms injuries as an epidemiological problem?
 
Jayhawkhuntclub, digging up lead in berms and metling lead will not produce the dust and vapors that pose the risks.

The lead dust from tumbling media, sweeping floors in ranges and from shooting lead slugs (primarily indoors with poor ventilation) are the primary sources that affect shooters.
 
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