Lead bullets mic oversize--what are the effects if used?

G

Gene Pool

New member
Gentlemen,
I bought some 230 grain 45 caliber hard cast lead bullets from a reputable source. I want to load for 45 ACP. The maker advertised the bullets to be sized .452, but when I mic them I get .4535--.0015 larger. I have loaded a few rounds and they will chamber (bearly) in all my 45's chambers.

My question is how will the bullets being oversized that much effect pressures? The loaded rounds are at the low to mid range in Lyman's manual. I have purposely stayed away from max loads.

Anyone have experience in this?

Thank you in advance for your inputs.

Gene Pool
 
How soft is the lead - is there a published Brinell hardness?

When you crimp that should also do a little bit of resizing. What is the diameter after it is crimped?
 
The manufacturer does not provide a numerical value for hardness. But the bullets are definitely hard. This manufacturer is a major source for cast lead bullets--not a garage operation. If crimping resizes the bullets, it only resizes about 1/5th of the bearing surface. The rest would be .4535.
 
You want a cast bullets to be 1-2 thousandths over bore size to help prevent leading. The lube used on the cast bullet is the factor in preventing leading.
 
OP said:
My question is how will the bullets being oversized that much effect pressures?
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Not that much, probably. Less than you suspect, but there is no way of knowing without specific pressure testing. My ammo in my gun will test differently than my ammo in your gun. Tiny differences in chamber and bore would reveal different pressures. There is enough "fudge factor" figured in to make standard ammo safe in a wide range of firearms.

OP said:
This manufacturer is a major source for cast lead bullets--not a garage operation.
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If this manufacturer is a major source of cast bullets, then I wouldn't worry about it. Seriously, I wouldn't worry about it at all.

The thing is, lead deforms easily, especially when being kicked in the butt by expanding powder gases. If the bullet is from a trusted source and the load is one that you've used in the past, I wouldn't worry about it.

We've been shooting lead for hundreds of years, and lead bullets have taken all the game on the planet, Lead is nothing new. Some of us size every bullet we put in our guns. Others of us use "as-dropped" bullets without sizing. We've all got our preferences. (Especially lead bullet casters and shooters).

But, having said all that, the only opinion that matters is yours. If you don't feel good about shooting them, then make the changes you need to make to be comfortable.
 
As long as they will chamber in your 45's, they will be fine. As I am sure you know, the 45 acp is a low pressure round. Cast bullet loading in 45 acp is easy, because the normal operating pressures are right in line with those needed for many cast bullet alloys.

The chamber pressure increase from the "over-sized" bullets in question will NOT be enough to cause a problem. As to whether they will be accurate in your particular gun(s).....only testing will determine that. They might actually be better than 0.452" diameter in your gun(s).

If your concerns about this are overwhelming (which they should NOT be)....just purchase a 0.452" push-through bullet sizing die and re-size them.
 
I size my .45 ACP bullets to 0.453". Cast from WW alloy, air quenched, they show no signs of over-pressure in primer nor case measurements. I don't push my lead alloy loads in any caliber and that of course affects safety; my .45's all measure 0.451" - 0.452", groove dia. As do two .45 Colts. The 0.453" dia. size works for all of them and produces good accuracy.

We're I you, I'd slug the bore of my gun first off, an easy procedure. For auto's, if your loaded rounds pass the "plunk" test in the chamber and the lead alloy bullets are within 0.001" to 0.002" of groove dia., I'd say you're good to go. For revolvers, the same dia. comment applies, with the caveat that the round chambers easily.

I have loaded a few rounds and they will chamber (bearly) in all my 45's chambers.
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Just saw this...they have to pass the plunk test to be reliable in an auto...a Lee Factory Crimp Die may help as it will resize the finished round to some extent as I understand it. I've found no need for them in my own use, however.


As always, my procedures may, or may not apply to your operation. YMMV.

Rod
 
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Kind of sounds they are maybe meant more for .45 Colt than .45ACP, though.
Also make sure your measurement was accurate.
It doesn't take much of a surface irregularity on lead bullets to throw calipers off.
 
Cast bullets for 45 acp don't need to be hard cast. Hardness should be just right for the pressure, not quite harder the better. If it is a reputable caster, they should have the hardness posted or available upon request.

-TL
 
Also make sure your measurement was accurate.
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Sigh. Yeah.

I don't know about the OP but personally I wonder about buying measuring tools accurate to within .00000000001 whisker when my eyes and fingers have a plus/minus of .01 (or worse some days).

Hey, maybe there's an apt where you could take a picture of something and it would tell you its size and we could all get rid of our calipers and micrometers. 'Cause you know, apts are ALWAYS correct...
 
G. willikers,

If it were a 250 grain instead of 230, that would be a gimmie.


Gene,

If they have normally filled lube grooves and a smooth surface, they were probably sized, but either in the wrong die or your measurement is being fooled in some way. Even a jacketed bullet can be sized down a few thousandths by firing without doing damage to a gun in most instances, but reliable feeding could still become a major issue.

You can get a Lee 0.452" sizing die cheaply and run them through it on your regular reloading press. If they are hard enough, they may spring back half a thousandth to a thousandth, but that's in the acceptable range, and some guns actually shoot more accurately with lead bullets 0.002" oversize than with the usual 0.001" oversize.
 
One and one half thousandths of an inch? If you can get your ammo to pass the "Plunk Test", there would be no pressure problems...;)

The manufacturer does not provide a numerical value for hardness. But the bullets are definitely hard. This manufacturer is a major source for cast lead bullets--not a garage operation. If crimping resizes the bullets, it only resizes about 1/5th of the bearing surface. The rest would be .4535.
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Any reputable bullet caster will supply BHN of their product. Crimping should not resize any bullets, if this is happening, something is wrong...
 
Crimping should not resize any bullets,...
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Normal roll-crimp (i.e.,for revolvers), correct.
But the Lee FCD-type case swagers can/will resize the bullet.

Hard note for the OP: No matter what "crimp" is used, use it only to
remove the expansion/bell from the case mouth back -- nothing more.

2j0iopc.jpg


postscript: Your 0.453" cast bullet diameter is fine. ;)
 
1.5 thou will make no difference to anything. A sheet of copy paper is thicker than that.
There's no roll crimping any case that headspaces on the case mouth. Even for a revolver.
 
^^^
There's probably a similar variance from bullet to bullet from the same batch.
Just checked a box of lead 200 grain SWC to see and there is, at least with my calipers.
The same box I've been reloading from for quite a spell and there's never been even a hint of pressure problems.
Loading for 9mm, I've often used .02 larger bullets at impressive velocities for better accuracy, and again, no hint of over pressure.
Don't sweat the small stuff. :)
Like most things, to experience pressure problems requires multiple errors.
A small one like this isn't near enough on it's own.
 
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Actually, if you pick up some old TAR's from the 60's you'll find a good many of the old time bullseye shooters roll-crimped their 45 ACP ammo, even for the 1911. They headspaced on the bullet or extractor, but allowing the bullet shoulder to enter the throat of the barrel, which they often had extended slightly with a throating reamer. They claimed the greatest accuracy came from that configuration. The bullets likely were BHN 10-12 mostly at that time, so the crimp just bit into the bullet.

I've verified that headspacing on the bullet is more accurate and produces less leading than headspacing on the case mouth. It shrank groups about 40% in my Goldcup, so the difference isn't trivial. Also, you have the problem that 45 ACP's low pressure has cases shorten rather than stretch with repeated use. I ran one set of bulk Winchester cases through 50 reloads one time. There weren't many left at the end that hadn't split or been lost, but the ones that were had all shortened by 0.025"; enough below SAAMI minimum that without headspacing on the bullet you could expect they would all headspace on the extractor hook before the mouths could reach the end of the chamber.

45SeatingPossibilities_zpsea6ec64c.gif
 
mehavey; I don't think of the Lee FCD as a viable tool. I believe it's just a band aid/cover up for other problems better addressed elsewhere...:cool:
 
Am I missing something here or was the issue they would not chamber?

That's a different issue than oversize though I see UNLCICK posted the reference for the chambering aspect.

Failure to chamber is a case issue not a bullet issue (assuming right COAL)
 
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