Watching this site I am generally impressed with the mostly level headed responses to most of what comes up. The point of this topic is to ponder and ask how and where people get their factually based information and ideas?
I try to offer up advice or perspectives based on a fair amount of experience, when my experience is limited compared to those weighing in that obviously have more I try to learn, not talk. I especially am interested in those who qualify their perspective based on telling how and why they know what they know, that means way more when the expertise was based on extensive exposures to something.
On another site there was quite a debate going on about wyoming wanting to ban lead shot (banned just about everywhere else). Basically I was seeing some of the lamest ideas about lead not being harmful to animals, especially birds you could imagine.
I am a pure gun loving nut, I've competed in a vast array of shooting sports that necessitate specialty high quality firearms. My wife is a bird specialty veterinarian with extensive commercial experience, this has exposed me to an incredible degree of knowledge (more than I ever wanted to know) about birds and what can hurt them.
Lead is the bane of birds, if a pet bird has a cage with lead paint it will get sick. If the bird eats something like just chewing on a lead glass decorative frame and gets just a few tiny pieces in it's gizzard it will be severely ill in a day and dead in a few if nothing is done. The clinical signs of lead toxicity are so specific and easy to spot with experience that my wife can more often than not make the call before running conclusive lab work like x-rays which show the little specks of lead like little black spots in the gizzard.
Jeanne has had clients who have had their ponds destroyed for ducks and geese by shooting skeet or trap over the pond. On a migrant population where waterfowl is passing through you will not notice the effects. One or two #8 shot will cause neurological signs like staggering when walking or not flying right. This is a death sentence for a wild bird who will be picked off by a predator.
I was using a tree out back off the deck as a backstop for pellet rifle shooting and there was a fair amount of flattened pellets at the base of the tree. We had a bird feeder up in that tree and our turkey population came through in the afternoon and gobbled up any grain on the ground. I didn't even think of the pellets, but my wife asked me if I was shooting pellets anywhere that the turkeys could get them. I asked why and she said she had seen about half a dozen turkeys in the flock of 80 or so that were acting wobbly in a way that looked like lead toxicity.
I fessed up and told her where I was shooting, we went and looked and sure enough there were pellets on the ground where the turkeys would eat them. Birds will eat all kinds of rocks and whatnot to help their gizzards grind up what they eat, the gizzard keeps a constant high level of lead in their system because the lead is soft and gets quickly ground up against rocks and released in their system.
So while I have seen plenty to know that concerns for wildlife and lead shot are not exaggerated in the least I wanted to share my experiences with just how bad it really is thinking that the information coming from a fellow shooter and enthusiast means more than from questionable or anti gun sources. One further credential as far as my wife is concerned is that she is not a liberally based anti hunting or shooting type at all. She has testified at three senate hearings and numerous county and state issues against PETA and other pro animal rights activists trying to get animal legislations against industry and private citizens rights to have or use animals.
I was branded a liberal anti gun person because of my factually based perspective on the realities of the issue. People who enjoy any sport or hobby such as hunting have a responsibility to act as stewards of their environment and wildlife.
People scare me that form an opinion like lead shot bans being a conspiracy to take our guns without being able to differentiate valid environmental concerns against poorly based "beliefs". Those people have zero ability to differentiate fact from rhetorical lines on anything.
I try to use bullets that go through ground squirrels in one of the places I shoot because eagles snap them up as soon as they are shot. It's actually pretty interesting, seagulls eat the guts and leave the bodies for the eagles. A .17 HMR doesn't leave much behind.
I shoot deer for meat and generally use a head shot.
I try to offer up advice or perspectives based on a fair amount of experience, when my experience is limited compared to those weighing in that obviously have more I try to learn, not talk. I especially am interested in those who qualify their perspective based on telling how and why they know what they know, that means way more when the expertise was based on extensive exposures to something.
On another site there was quite a debate going on about wyoming wanting to ban lead shot (banned just about everywhere else). Basically I was seeing some of the lamest ideas about lead not being harmful to animals, especially birds you could imagine.
I am a pure gun loving nut, I've competed in a vast array of shooting sports that necessitate specialty high quality firearms. My wife is a bird specialty veterinarian with extensive commercial experience, this has exposed me to an incredible degree of knowledge (more than I ever wanted to know) about birds and what can hurt them.
Lead is the bane of birds, if a pet bird has a cage with lead paint it will get sick. If the bird eats something like just chewing on a lead glass decorative frame and gets just a few tiny pieces in it's gizzard it will be severely ill in a day and dead in a few if nothing is done. The clinical signs of lead toxicity are so specific and easy to spot with experience that my wife can more often than not make the call before running conclusive lab work like x-rays which show the little specks of lead like little black spots in the gizzard.
Jeanne has had clients who have had their ponds destroyed for ducks and geese by shooting skeet or trap over the pond. On a migrant population where waterfowl is passing through you will not notice the effects. One or two #8 shot will cause neurological signs like staggering when walking or not flying right. This is a death sentence for a wild bird who will be picked off by a predator.
I was using a tree out back off the deck as a backstop for pellet rifle shooting and there was a fair amount of flattened pellets at the base of the tree. We had a bird feeder up in that tree and our turkey population came through in the afternoon and gobbled up any grain on the ground. I didn't even think of the pellets, but my wife asked me if I was shooting pellets anywhere that the turkeys could get them. I asked why and she said she had seen about half a dozen turkeys in the flock of 80 or so that were acting wobbly in a way that looked like lead toxicity.
I fessed up and told her where I was shooting, we went and looked and sure enough there were pellets on the ground where the turkeys would eat them. Birds will eat all kinds of rocks and whatnot to help their gizzards grind up what they eat, the gizzard keeps a constant high level of lead in their system because the lead is soft and gets quickly ground up against rocks and released in their system.
So while I have seen plenty to know that concerns for wildlife and lead shot are not exaggerated in the least I wanted to share my experiences with just how bad it really is thinking that the information coming from a fellow shooter and enthusiast means more than from questionable or anti gun sources. One further credential as far as my wife is concerned is that she is not a liberally based anti hunting or shooting type at all. She has testified at three senate hearings and numerous county and state issues against PETA and other pro animal rights activists trying to get animal legislations against industry and private citizens rights to have or use animals.
I was branded a liberal anti gun person because of my factually based perspective on the realities of the issue. People who enjoy any sport or hobby such as hunting have a responsibility to act as stewards of their environment and wildlife.
People scare me that form an opinion like lead shot bans being a conspiracy to take our guns without being able to differentiate valid environmental concerns against poorly based "beliefs". Those people have zero ability to differentiate fact from rhetorical lines on anything.
I try to use bullets that go through ground squirrels in one of the places I shoot because eagles snap them up as soon as they are shot. It's actually pretty interesting, seagulls eat the guts and leave the bodies for the eagles. A .17 HMR doesn't leave much behind.
I shoot deer for meat and generally use a head shot.
and I ate them. I use steel on public land, soon it will be every where.