Lazer Sights

B

BikerRN

New member
Hi all,

I wasn't sure where to post this, but thought it might be OK here.

I am considering putting a laser sight on my primary off duty gun. The main reason is to help ensure that my bullets go where I want them to in a defensive encounter.

I have heard of subjects stopping their aggressive actions once they noticed the "little red dot" placed on their chest. This gives an added benefit of stopping a situation without having to fire the weapon, which is a huge plus in my book.

Given that we can't predict all future encounters, and only try to be as well prepared as possible, I was wondering if anyone has any expirience with them and if they recommend them or not. I already have Night Sights and carry a Surefire Flashlight and cell phone whenever I carry my gun, which is pretty much all the time.

What I am trying to do is supplement, not replace, seeing my front sight and maintaining good trigger control. Since most encounters seem to happen in low or dim light I was thinking that in addition to what I already have and carry, that this might be beneficial.

The downside is, they are expensive. The upside is, they may help me get bullets on target once I have identified my target just a little quicker. Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter. I eagarly await your replies.

Biker
 
I have the Crimson Trace on my 642. It works. In low light situations when you cant see the sights its the cats meow.

You'll hear people say NAH because the battery may go, or what ever. If the battery goes, or the something else fails (though I never heard of one failing except for the battery) you still have the pistols sights.

And you wont believe how it helps your shooting.
 
I like the lasermax that is installed in the guide rod. Pretty neat set-up, and doesn't change anything on the gun. Depends on what you're carrying, though, whether you can get it to fit you're particular application.

I've used a few different ones, and would love to get one. Seems as though the crimson trace and lasermax both get good reviews.
 
The Lasermax's drawback is that you have to activate it with a switch forward on the frame--changes your grip. The LaserGrips don't require this; their pressure switch comes on when you squeeze the grip.

The advantage of the Lasermax, in my mind, is that when your finger is off the trigger, if you're like me, it's blocking the LaserGrip's laser. The Lasermax unit won't allow that.
 
I have CrisonTrace also and can say that they are great. When I go to the range, I usually bring a friend. I've brought veteran shooters and guys who had never fired a gun before. The laser won't make a good shooter great, but they can help with making a first time shooter decent. The other advantage is that unlike a laser that you would fix to the rails of your pistol, CrisonTrace will not require a special holster. On top of that, they are good, comfortable, rubber grips. You may be a great shooter that doesn't need extra help, but if it's at night or you don't have your glasses or any other situation where your visibilty is is limited, you'll be glad you have them. Also it is definitely true that if you're in a standoff situation, you're going to have the psychological advantage. They'll be thinking, "I might hit this guy, but he'll definitely hit me." Bad guy will be much more likely to stand down. The red dot is a scary thing to see on your chest. The only downside, is they are in fact expensive. I paid just shy of $300 for mine. It's something worth saving up for though.
 
If your having an issue with the "bad guy", why would he be looking at his own chest? Dont you think his priorities would be elsewhere? I personally think the dot on the chest thing is a movie thing. Think about it, a quick side step, and the dots no longer on your chest. ;)

I'm one of the ones (few?) that had a hard time with the laser on my guns. I just couldnt resolve the issues, and moved on. I prefer night sights and red dots.

Biggest issue for me was the sensory overload thing. You cant use the laser and your sights at the same time. Sounds silly, but it was a big issue for me. To many years of using my sights. Problem was, my right eye was seeing the sights, my left eye was seeing the dot, and the two were not in the same place on the target. (I wasnt using a CT. Mine was a Insight Tech light/laser combo) It just made for a lot of confusion and over thinking. Add to that, if the dot wasnt on target for some reason, now you have to go looking for the dot when you should be looking at the target.

Next issue was, I thought Katherine Hepburn was holding my gun the way that dot was bouncing around on the target. I had to focus way to hard to keep the dot where I wanted, especially during a DA trigger stroke.

It just seems to me, to much of your attention is required for the dot when it should be on the target.

Another thing I never got to really work out was, how well do you do on targets that are moving? Everyone I've ever seen use one was shooting at a static targets on a static range. Anyone used one with an Airsoft gun on an opponent thats not standing still and shooting back?

I can see there might be a few specific times or scenarios where the laser could be of a benifit, but I just didnt see I was gaining anything for the effort needed to make them work. I'm not saying they dont work for other people, just that they arent for me, at least yet.
 
The LaserMax guide rod is not as bright, because of its smaller appeture,as the Crimson Trace laser grips. The best if you have a rail is the green Laser Max, down side is not for holster use.
The Crimson Trace is really great and as good as a shot that you may be you will do better with the laser. It is just faster with moving targets and low light situations. Try the front activion and side activion types before you buy. I like the side activion better.
 
I bought a lasermax for my beretta 92 about three months ago. The first time I used it, I did not expect it to work as well as it did. I was very easily able to put an entire box through the center of a target from 15 yards. The manufacturer says that it is accurate out to 20 yards. I found that it worked well as far out as 30 yards. It wasn't quite as precise from 30, but a well practiced shooter should have no problem hitting the center of mass from at least 30 yards.

Things that I like most about this device are: 1) The fact that it does not change the way the gun looks at all!. 2) It is very easy to turn on since the switch it exactly where the trigger finger should be before deciding to fire. 3) The pulsating light makes it very easy to see, and it let's people know you're not screwing around. 4) The batteries last a pretty long time. However it's best to keep a fresh set in the gun for defense use, and switch them out with used batteries for practice. 5) The sights allow you to see the direction that your hand recoils; when at the range this can be helpful in developing proper technique. 6) It won't get knocked out of alignment if the gun is dropped or thrown from a car or something. 7) The laser goes off automatically after the slide is held back (at least on the beretta). This seems minor, but who needs a flashing red light giving you away when reloading, right? 8) It's NATO approved, couldn't hurt?

Negatives would have to be: 1) Laser sights can give away your position. If the element of surprise is needed, this won't help you. 2) It should not be used as a replacement for knowing how to shoot normally, as some might try to make it. 3) It costs $300!!.

All in all, this thing is great. If you have extra money to burn on gadgets, this one is worth checking out. I only got this, because putting glow sights on my beretta was going to cost over $200, so I figured what the heck. I needed some form of night sight since I keep this in the bedroom
 
I went with the CT on my Glock 26. Every time I take it to the range I get more impressed with it. Darn thing is very accurate. The only draw back is some of my older holsters don't fit it, but you can find several to work.

Kahrglock.jpg
 
Laser Grips for the Hi Power are great, IMHO.

From a rest I never shot such a tight group in my life. What I have found is, at "normal" combat distance, out to 10 Yards or so, I'm quicker with the Laser Grips between shots and in getting the first shot off. After that, as the distance inreases, I prefer the traditional sight picture.

It took me forever to get my laser grips "dialed in", but once I did, I was very pleased with the result. At longer distances I find the "quivering" too much of a distraction. As Massad Ayoob says, "Unless you're Robo-Cop" nobody can hold the gun perfectly still." At closer distances this isn't a problem, but when I try to keep five shots on a 3" x 5" Index Card at 25 Yards, it's too distracting with the laser. By the way, When I shoot at 25 Yards, that's from a free-standing position with the gun in my hands, not resting on a table.

I have yet to try the Laser Grips under all light conditions, but I already know what I prefer in dim light with my glasses off. Without my glasses I'm better with a laser than trying to see my front Sight.

Take care and stay safe and I hope that helps.

Biker
 
I personally love the CTC grips for my M&P 9c. I actually wouldn't have a HD/SD handgun without a set now. I do prefer the CTC over the laser max becuase the on/off switch on the CTC is grip integrated. The laser is activated with your natural grip.

AK103K
It just seems to me, to much of your attention is required for the dot when it should be on the target.
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That is exactly the reason I think the red dot is so great. ALL of my focus can be on the target and seeing that the red dot is in place. I don't have to align three dots and then keep that picture on my target. Just focus on the target and it is easy to see that the red dot is "part" of that target.


dr.j
Negatives would have to be: 1) Laser sights can give away your position. If the element of surprise is needed, this won't help you.
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If you need the element of suprise, I don't think you are at liberty to use deadly force! :confused:


Laser grips are a huge benifit for very small guns (snub nose revolvers and pocket guns). I hope to get a set for my LCP soon.

Bottom line for the OP, I would definately HIGHLY recommend CTC laser grips. Money well spent :D
 
ALL of my focus can be on the target and seeing that the red dot is in place. I don't have to align three dots and then keep that picture on my target. Just focus on the target and it is easy to see that the red dot is "part" of that target.
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What happens if the dot "isnt" on the target when you look at it?

How well do you shoot on moving targets, and how easy is it to track that dot while your target or you both are moving?
 
The laser may have a benifit at a distance, but wouldn't a focus beam flashlight be more functional? Maybe help indentify a threat first with the added ability of just shinning the light to point of aim up close?
 
I have a Crimson Trace on a Ruger LCP. The Ruger has a short barrel and a "difficult" trigger. Once I got the Crimson Trace on the gun and "sighted in" (took about 4 shots) the results were nothing short of miraculous. Put the red dot on the target, squeeze the trigger, and a hole appears in the target where the red dot is. Over and over again. Sure helps my aging eyes a lot. Great, great deal.
 
You can easily switch over to the sights if needed. The laser isn't a "replacement" for sights. They are a "supplement".
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Well said, and I agree.

The laser is just another "tool" to have in the toolbox until needed.

Biker
 
I will NOT be without one.

I have a laser grip on my .45, it is my primary home defense gun, together with a Borealis 1050 lumens flashlight.

After the alarm sounded...
My tactic is to get to the bedroom door and from there control the passage way and the living room, with the body protected by the frame and with only my half face exposed, one hand holding the pistol and the other hand the Borealis flashlight.

With a laser is not need to line up your face with the pistol, no tunnel vision, no exposing body parts to get into a shooting position.
If you are going to have a gunfight, this is the best way!

This, for me is the most valuable feature of the laser.

The flashlight with the 1050 lumens (two millions candlepower) will cook the eyes of an intruder.

Colt .45 with laser grips and the Borealis 1050 lumens flashlight.

govtlaser.jpg


noflash.jpg




Cheers
Black Bear
 
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How well do you shoot on moving targets, and how easy is it to track that dot while your target or you both are moving?
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Far better and easier with the laser than without.Despite the fact i have far more experience with the sights.

I think this(movement) and unconventional positions is where lasers really shine.:D

As far as LM-v-CT...

One concern that hasnt been mentioned is LM units possibly breaking and causing jams.Which i have seen reports of.This couldnt happen with the CT.

...A +1 for the CT imo.

The CT can be zero'd with whatever your prefered method may be as well(in line or at a specific distance of your choosing).Without the out of the box offset up to 2" IIRC on the LaserMax.

The advantage of the Lasermax, in my mind, is that when your finger is off the trigger, if you're like me, it's blocking the LaserGrip's laser. The Lasermax unit won't allow that.
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I like this about the laser grips.I see no reason to have my laser on target before im ready to fire(maybe if i gave serious credence to "the deterrent effect" i may feel differently).It basically works as an automatic activation when you're ready to fire,assuming you have the pressure switch already activated as you have a shooting grip.
 
i bought my first set of ct,s for my s&w 60 because with trifocals the sights get lost in any but bright light, with the ct,s i am good to go out to 20-25 yards on most targets that may need shot. eastbank.
 
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