Last thread about light-for-caliber loadings...pinky swear, at least til next spring

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skizzums

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please dont think i am exaggherating, of course it'd be less embarrasing if i was, i sat on google for a solid four hours before placing my order, and nw i am still going back and forth. here's the concern, WHY IN THE WORLD would Magech sell TWO 95gr Solid-Copper Hollow-Points? one under the .38spl projectiles and the other under 357mag projectiles. i could not find a single thread in any forum anywhere about this discrepancy. first thought was, okay "since maybe they don't wanna confuse the new market of loaders, no harm in packaging to make it less-confusing. But then i noticed the .38 projectiles sell at about 15% more across the board, no matter then vendor, some a bit more...not the other way around as you would expect with possibly the magnum bringing more profit, that would allow them to claim maybe thicker jackets, tougher construction, maybe even bonded for weight retention....... that's what's eating to me, cant see why they would sell two different bullets with same weight/name/diameter and visible construction(mono BTW, so not core bonding)

ony thing that i am curious about is MAYBE they are annealing the noses of the 38's to soften up for assisting with expansion at a 50% less muzzle velocities of of a three fitty sebun ......

would really like to brainstorm on this before my package ships on monday. after doing more research theses past few days, i have found a few more available 38 mono's thn i presumed at first.
 
In looking at pictures online it would appear that they're both loaded with the same projectiles (the loaded ammo that is). I was going to suggest there might be different profiles to the nose but from what I can tell that is not the case.
The Magtech website doesn't turn up any facts that may differentiate the two short of different UPC codes/part numbers. I find it odd that they would produce two nearly identical products and one is priced over 10% higher than the other...strange.:confused:
 
Are you talking about the projectile only or there loaded rounds . I ask because I emailed them your question but upon reading the OP again . I'm not sure I asked the right question . My email was projectile specific and are the to bullets the same and if not how does the difference effect reloading them .
 
projectile only, but really either or. in projectiles, they sell a .38spl 95gr SCHP and a .357 95gr SCHP. I first thought this was just to simplify confusion about 38cal's, but since they are different prices I assume something must be different. what response were you given in email? I want a SCHP that will work good at in 38spl, but her "357mag" bullet is 6$ dollars cheaper, don't wanna pay the premium if they are in fact the exact same projectile as the appear to be.
here's an example, and it's like this on every website that sells them. (note stock pics do not reflect actual projectile)
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadi...pistol-bullets/handgun-bullets-prod65095.aspx

scroll down the right side until you see 357mag SCHP 95gr MagTech's, then go about six under and you'll see the same thing listed as 38spl 95gr SCHP, both also say 357.38 calm but the one TITLED as the 38spl bullet is more expensive one every website that offers it.

if there is no difference, then buds has them for the cheapest anway, but only sell the "357mag" projectile.

like I said, if you look up images of the bullets they look identical, I can only think that if ANYTHING is actually different, it may be that the 38spl projectile would be post annealed to make a softer tip for lower velocity expansion, and hence that extra step would increase cos. if the 38 has a soft nose, I would prefer that one indeed. thanks for any help.

metl I would love to hear what your reply was on this before I order, I GUESS I could pick up a phone myself tomorrow, but I wnted to get the order done tonight so it gets shipped tomorrow. but it's not the end of the world.


here is the vendor I was first notice this and have both in stock, and say nothing of the difference http://www.lohmanarms.com/category-s/3701.htm , and again, any vendor just shows a stock picture with little detail. I have even the specs on the 95gr SCHP and can not find any specs differing from another, and I would hope it isn't just te fat that 38spl loading is more popular, so they figure they could charge few extra for a different label, but it could be annealed, or have a deeper cavity or something that's jus not mentioned. maybe the 357 has a cannelure and 38 ot needs one....I dunno. at a loss here. I am surprised that I can mind many reloading threads on these bullets without a mention of the different kinds.
 
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you know what, buds does hve the 38 branded ones in stock, and they're only 4$ more, so I a just going to get them, and hopefully resolve the question in the future if the turn out to be shooters. it must be my nhrited cheapness, but I am oing to be a little "peeved" if I paid 4 extra bucks for the same thing, oh well. they are still the only affordable mono hollow-point's that actualy do as their made to, lots of cheap "expanding" hollow-points are a joke with monolithics, and also these aren't "cheap", I think 50c is at least "affordable considering the cost of the boutique bullet turners, like Lehigh's 90c a round pls 10$ shipping and cuttingedge's 80$ for 50ct shipped. not saying anthing wrong with them and CuttingEdge looks like a seriously effective hunting round, just not appropriate for my needs. the LeHigh's "controlled-fracture" is interesting on paper, but fails to gain my trust of life and Lehigh's only other 357 is the "penetrator" or (phillip's head) that I would only want if pistol hunting, whereas mag-tech is simply a tougher, standard-design HP with a strong material and 100% retention, and it actually works very well in their house loads with very positive expansion and causes heavy wounds, or scrambled gelatin anyhow.

thanks guy, still very interested though, if anyone has any reasoning to the different price and packaging of them two, id love to hear opinions

p.s. I have never purchased bullets from buds, limited selection, but if they have what you want....ut's pretty much unbeatable price-wise, just buy enough to make up for the 9$ shipping. peace out homies
 
I just emailed today after reading your post . They have not returned a reply yet . I've never emailed them before so I'm not sure when to expect the reply . Redding replies the next day most of the time . Hornady takes up to a week sometimes . I'll let you know what they say when I get there reply .
 
HOLY COW those are some expensive pistol bullets. :eek:

Are you sure this is what you need?
I admit up front that I know almost nothing whatsoever about hunting, so I truly do not know what kind of hunting advantage monolithic 95-grain little round nose pistol bullet is supposed to offer, but I'd love to be enlightened.
 
They show slightly different stock numbers so apparently they are some how different.

what kind of hunting advantage monolithic 95-grain little round nose pistol bullet is supposed to offer, but I'd love to be enlightened.
Click to expand...

Even though the photo shows RN bullets they are in fact HP.

My experience with copper bullets is with rifles, but the same principle applies. Standard jacketed lead bullets lose anywhere from 20% to 80% of their bullet weight at impact. Around 50% is about average. It depends on the bullets construction and the speed it impacts.

Copper bullets retain 100% of their weight at impact, but need much greater speed to expand. A 95 gr copper bullet will end up actually weighing more than most 158 gr bullets and give equal or better penetration. Because it is lighter it can be pushed much faster. Which it needs in order to expand.

If you shoot the same weight copper as traditional lead bullets they tend to be too slow, don't expand and you end up with FMJ performance.
 
they're not perfect, but they are for low-recoil test. no gel test on this particular bullet but it is similar to the 9mm, albeit slower, and the 9mm(similar weight and construction) did barely okay. BUT, these are cheaper than the other option for SCHP lightweight 38cal bullets. so if the load does well for a recoil sensitive shooter loaded to moderately velocity, then i'll maybe move to a lightweight DPX to fill the gap for a carry load for a recoil sensitive shooter. barnes also make makes load in even lighter monolithic 38 that has tests of working well. couple others as well, Lehigh and cttingedge, but not wanted to spend 80$ on 50 rounds, I would just like to see how these work for the shooter before investing in higher end stuff. if it shoots satisfactorily with acceptable recoil impulse, then I will likely get them to use Hi-ek 90gr for practice and Barnes for defense. just experimenting with some things at this point.. and what's 50$ for a hundred hollow-points anyway, not cheap but not the end of times either, plenty of pricier one out there.
 
They show slightly different stock numbers so apparently they are some how different.
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My impression also, probably the .38s expand at a lower velocity. Less demand for them may make them more expensive or the materials use to make the softer alloy may be more expensive. Most applications for monolithic bullets is for hunting in areas where lead is prohibited, especially when it's non-dangerous game that is being hunted. In most applications for hunting, .357 would be a much more popular choice than .38.
 
I know of another company that anneals the top 1/3 of their "petaled" all-copper rounds.I assume some type of heating/cooling process would be the ONLY way to change a characteristic to just a single part of a projectile machined from a single piece of bar. That process alone justifies the few extra bucks, but I wish their was some kind of mention of the differences.

Okay, I just understood the above post. That the entire barstock may be a more malleable alloy, sounds even more feasible.
 
I finally got my reply from Magtech Ammunition

I wrote
was looking at your 95gr lead free Solid-Copper Hollow-Point 38spl & 357 projectile and noticed they seem to be the same bullet . They however are sold separately as if they are different . My question , Are they the same bullet ? If not what is different about them and how does that apply to reloading them ?
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I also sent a second email

I thought I'd add to the question for clarity . One of the reasons I'm asking is the 38spl bullets cost more then the 357 bullets . Buy as much as $12 a box just about everywhere I look . The fact they are boxed , marketed and sold separate as well as having a different price . Leads me to believe they are different in some way . It seems odd that the 38's cost more then the 357's to me . I was thinking maybe you guys anneal the tips of the 38spl projectiles to insure expansion and that is where the extra cost comes in . Just thinking out loud here.
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They replied to both with this

The factory just let me know that they are the same projectile in both rounds. As we don't sell direct I can't tell you why the ones labeled for the .38 seem to cost more.


Thanks,

Jeff Kammeyer
Technical Services
Magtech Ammunition
248 Apollo Drive Suite 180
Lino Lakes, MN 55014
763-235-4000 office
763-235-4004 fax
612-615-1220 cell
jeff.kammeyer@magtechammunition.com
Click to expand...

There it is there . I find it interesting they sell the same projectile packaged two different ways . You'd think it would be one box marked 38spl/357 and the diameter . I may reply to there last email and ask why they choose to sell them separately .
 
very interesting indeed. but before we try o understand their practices or marketing, let us all remember that these come from the same place that gave us the Taurus View......

honestly though, I cn say I am more than little ticked off that they would do that, and if the e-mail is conveying the message I am hearing, it's that they charge the same thing for both marked packages. so I guess it's just priced by whatever algorithm the sellers use to estimate the percentage of up-charge they will add based on demand etc. if the bullet turns out ot be a good one for the intended purpose, I will buy the 357 next time and do a side by side comparison, I do not have a way to test hardness thob, maybe a vice and a torque bar(?)...not sure. But if CBC-MagTech say its the same, and they all measure the same, i'll have no reason to doubt them. I was thinking before your email, that they might at least have a different cannelure depth, who knows.

the bullets arrived yesterday evening, ordered from Bud's but contracted to "Crows Shooting Supplies". A little slower shipped than I am used to from Bud's, but sill arrived in 5 business days with way over the top packaging(half dozen sheets of TOUGH bubble-wrap in a medium-size box for one tiny bag o bullets, it was a little absurd, but hey, it's better than the opposite), item was a described, I so far would do business with Crow's again.

The Bullets.....pretty nice. If consistency of weight and diameter are big factors to you, than these are a real winner. I removed ten bullets to compare, I didn't cherry pick them, just the first ten I could grab from the top. They look good, soft edges, nice polish and a insane deep hollow-point cavity. These bullets are not cheap by any means, but they are under 50c a round which isn't that bad for monoithics, and if they do what they're supposed to, it might be a great deal.




I don't have a very good "macro" camera, but there are six little leaves on the inside, perfect circles almost, that fold down like ears on the inside of the cavity along the serrations, straight down and not pushed against the walls. thought it peculiar, hopefully you can see what I'm talking about. not sure if this was by design or just a by-product of the process....
 
weight and diameter consistency was pretty top-notch. there is one aspect of the bullet hat is of quality concern, i'll get to that in a second. as for weight. the ten random bullets were weighed and resulted I six perfect 95.0gr and 3x 94.9gr and 3x 95.1gr. how's this for a consistent average...

Diameter's were as such:(note my digital only goes to .0005 increments, very well could be less than shown)
1=357.0 5=357.5
2=357.5 6=357.5
3=357.0 7=357.5
4=357.5 8=357.5
5=357.0 10=357.0
can't beat that even for rifles usually....

nothing is perfect, and unforunetly what is believed to be one the most important consistencies of a bllet, are a bit ungainly by anyone standards, not sure why this is the result of a supposed machined round? will a base that has imbalances like this affect accuracy at general handgun distance, let's say 25yrd MAX??

the height's were a little inconsistent, but not any worse than I am use to, and I suspect mostly due to the flows on the bases. i'll admit to not doing this to lots of different bullets, so unsure of what's really good and what's really bad.
.5790 .5890 .5805 .5795
.5795 .5815 .5795
.5800 .5790 .5810

The cannelure height was varying, bot no more than the different lengths of cartridge's, actually a lot less.
to top of cannelure band to bottom of bullet, measured on the edge a flat surface with the width of the surface subtracted.
.2995 .3000 .3020 .3010 .3030
.3025 .2995 .3005 .3000 .3025

last, the hollow-point cavities, very deep with a nice tapered point much like XTP, but a little wider and less of a steep angle. pretty consistent .30 depth, +/- .01.


I know this is a lot of uselss information, but these rounds have little online documentation, hopefully a future buy will come across it. Not to mention I can come back and use tis as a guide to compare the .357's against.

I am loading tomorrow and hopefully will have time to tet them I will be testing starting loads from a snub and a 24" barrel. sorry no gelatin, mainly function at first, accuracy, water jugs and wet-pack. will posts loads and results when finished.
 
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