Lasers, anyone?

F

FUD

Moderator
I've been thinking about getting one of those laser sights, that actually becomes part of the gun by replacing spring guide inside the pistol, for the gun that I keep in my night stand for home defense ...
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... I felt that not only would the laser sight help me stay on target (which would be especially helpful during a stressful situation where I was woken from a sound sleep to face an attacker), but it might intimate the intruder as well so that maybe I could avoid having to fire a shot.

Then I saw the prices and they're almost as expensive as the guns that they are to be installed on. This has obviously caused me to second think my decision about getting one. Has anyone any experience with these laser sights and would it be a worthwhile investment to install them on my primary home defense pistol -- not my every day CCW but the gun that I would reach for in the middle of the night to protect my family when I tired, sleepy and in a possible life threatening situation?

Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD.
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FUD

Just don't rely on that laser if you are sleepy or tired. You need to be fully awake and identify the target, not just paint it with the laser. I have used the laser in the past, but I refuse to rely on a battery operated system for targeting. Its bad enought buying those damn lithium batteries for the Surefire. I know people who have laser sites, and switched off they are lost w/o them. My one friend wanted to bag a day at the range because his batteries were dead. This was his last trip to the range with me for a while. In my opinion, you would be better served with a quality light and some low-light training. Oh yeah make sure that you batteries are fresh in you light. I always carry a Maglite rechargeable in the Explorer on duty for when the Surefire dims.

Be Safe
Mike
 
Lasers will just make your eyes lazy and cause your brain to forget everything you ever learned about marksmanship. A good flashlight and a good dog are your best bets.

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Guns cause crime like spoons cause Rosie O'Donnell to be fat!

I hunt, therefore I am.
 
I have a Lasermax in my Glock 23. I also feel that nothing replaces open sight shooting for acquiring and keeping good fundamental shooting skills. I have shot various pistols at indoor ranges and squirrel hunted with them for years. I consider myself a descent shot due to the fact that I shoot very regularly. However, I firmly believe in my own evaluation, that there is no doubt that my laser tightens up my group when I turn it on. How do I know? Every week I go to the range and warm up with open sights on targets from 10 -25 yards. Every single time I put a target out and turn the laser on, I do considerably better. Everytime I turn it off the groups get larger. I have MMC sights that have a very nice sight picture, so I feel I am doing a fair test. I align the open sights on the target like normal with the pulsating laser dot being seen sitting on my front sight. It magnifies every wiggle and makes me bare down and further refine my shot placement. My weekly visits to the range convinces me everytime. I originally bought the Lasermax to shoot possums at night bothering my cats. I never had a fleeting thought of how accurate this thing was. I am an avid squirrel hunter with my Hi-Standard 22 with open sights. My COMBAT 23 with the laser beats my TARGET pistol hands down. It is very hard to acquire a good sight picture on a squirrel with all the shadows and so on. If you can see the squirrels head and you are within 20 yards, take a braced shot against a tree, you will more than likely bag it. Many a shot I have turned down with open sights for lack of a good sight picture. Excuse the long story, but it is my personal experience with a laser and for me it was money well spent.
 
I agree with keeping a flashlight handy....and only using when completely necessary. If you use a laser, your eyes not only become lazy, it gives away your position. Using a laser, better hope that you hit at what your aiming at...or else you might be on the other end of a that red dot...my $.02. Too bad tracers are scarse.

JJC
 
If you want a rational pro-laser opinion
deja.com on Todd Louis Green on the rec.guns
groups and search for lasers.

Personally, I prefer night sights and a
good flashlight technique but that starts
a giant fight also.

This is for a self-defense gun

For hunting, I have no experience with lasers.
 
I guess I get to vote 4 times - once for myself, my dad, my mom, and one of my best friends. We all have the Crimson Trace Lasergrips on our guns. We all shoot regularly with our open sights so we don't rely totally on the laser, although I hear dad complaining about mom wanting to keep hers turned on at the range all the time. I can understand that though because she cuts her groups in half when using the laser. I get twice the practise time in because, using the laser, I can sit in my house watch TV and practise dry firing my gun. The laser shows me exactly how steady my firing technique is. Yes - thats 4, count them again, 4 votes for the laser sights. Worth the money - no question about it.
 
Lasers have been around a long time. Once the size of a big brick they have sure shrunk. Some things few think about is that they don't work much in daylight.
In low light the beam is so small that it is all but impossible with great effort to hold it on target as it dances around. On a moving target it becomes almost impossible to get the beam on target. Trying to shoot a balloon let lose in the wind at close range is marginal at best for most.
Once the gun is fired the beam is all over the planet and you have to find it again, which won't be easy and with a moving target all but impossible.
The most optimistic view is you will have a one shot device.
We have done over 10 years extensive experimentation on this issue and there is no question that shooters can be more effective by a wide margin without a laser or even night sights. You can shoot faster and more effectivly without such aids. Yesterday I had some govt types on the range and it took only a few minutes to show how ineffective they work. On the surface they seem like a great idea, but in application they sort of fall apart.
One dept that issued lasers to all officers had numerous shootings and the officers didn't turn on the lasers. When asked why that was, all said, " we forgot." That is common in shootings. Sometimes it is also best NOT to let a criminal know where you are or that you are there. I love to use the "Tactical Gomer Pyle." SURPRISE SURPRISE SURPRISE!
 
I've got the internal LazerMax on my Sig P220, as well as night sights. This is my home defense weapon. I feel that it is money well spent. I rarely use the lazer for target practice, but do occasionally turn it on just to verify sight alignment.
I also agree that they do make it nice for dry-fire practice, as it shows any jerking/shaking/ect of the pistol. This aspect alone has tremendously helped my trigger control technique.
Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill in NM (edited March 12, 2000).]
 
Take the money you would otherwise spend on the laser, and buy a couple of thousand rounds of ammo. Use it to practice using your sights. You will be light years ahead.

Really bad guys won't be intimidated by your laser, and if you delay shooting, waiting for his reaction, you may end up with a hole in your forehead.
Intimidate him w/ a few holes in his chest.
 
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