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lake city brass ?
- Thread starter rebs
- Start date
either or both 223 and 5.56.
I sort by head stamp, I have one drawer full of 223, also know as 5.56. Most of my 223/5.56 cases have FC head stamps.
F. Guffey
Not sure I follow "either or both 223 and 5.56". For practical purposes both cartridges are the same dimensionally. You don't buy 5.56mm reloading dies, you find .223 Remington ones. Run a Lake City case into a 223 sizer, fill it with a powder charge from the 223 data, seat a .224" bullet and you now have a loaded .223 round.
My .223 brass has quite a bit of Lake City in it. It's good, tough brass, and better if you can buy it before the primer pockets have been crimped.
My .223 brass has quite a bit of Lake City in it. It's good, tough brass, and better if you can buy it before the primer pockets have been crimped.
"Run a Lake City case into a 223 sizer, fill it with a powder charge from the 223 data, seat a .224" bullet"
and you have a potential problem.
I've found that at least some military cases take 1/2 to 1 grain less powder to reach similar velocities as commercial cases. Does this tell you something?
and you have a potential problem.
I've found that at least some military cases take 1/2 to 1 grain less powder to reach similar velocities as commercial cases. Does this tell you something?
Shootest is correct and yes they make both 5.56 & 308 brass . If once fired they all will have a crimp that needs to be removed . Buying brand new should only have one real advantage . That is there will be no crimp to remove . LC brass is good brass but it's no Lapua . Not sure it would be worth spending extra for new LC brass . . I get 500 once fired 5.56 LC cases for $25 from my local range .
What are they selling the new brass for ? Is it new virgin brass or pulled brass with primer still in the brass and sealant on the insides of necks ?
What are they selling the new brass for ? Is it new virgin brass or pulled brass with primer still in the brass and sealant on the insides of necks ?
Mobuck said:and you have a potential problem.
I've found that at least some military cases take 1/2 to 1 grain less powder to reach similar velocities as commercial cases. Does this tell you something?
In my experience it has been a non-issue with assorted years of Lake City cases. The last large batch of Winchester cases I had chronographed 50-fps faster than '05 and '06 headstamp LC cases with identical loads. Of course other armories and brands may vary, hence why we start low and work loads up when switching components.
WVMountaineer
New member
I have Federal FC stamped 5.56 brass and, Lake City once fired 5.56 brass. I find I like them both and, so does my gun. I do separate them and have focused on the Lake City as of late.
As far as virgin brass, just buy the once fired stuff and an CH4D swage die set and, you'll save a lot of money and, have the means to turn all crimped brass into very user friendly brass in just a few seconds and a pull on your press handle. Once fired 5.56 brass is cheap. So is the swage die set. And you'll be set for more cheap brass and save big $$$$$$$$ in a lifetime of shooting versus buying virgin un crimped brass. God Bless
As far as virgin brass, just buy the once fired stuff and an CH4D swage die set and, you'll save a lot of money and, have the means to turn all crimped brass into very user friendly brass in just a few seconds and a pull on your press handle. Once fired 5.56 brass is cheap. So is the swage die set. And you'll be set for more cheap brass and save big $$$$$$$$ in a lifetime of shooting versus buying virgin un crimped brass. God Bless
Rebs,
What the woman said on the phone is probably just badly phrased. She or whoever wrote what she read to you just meant the cases could be considered either or both .223 or 5.56. Lake City brass has no chambering name on the headstamp. It just says LC ##, with the hashtags being the last two numbers of the year it was manufactured. It will not say either .223 or 5.56 on it anywhere.
I personally think it's a good idea to buy the brass you described for match shooting. They tend to use mixed tooling in lots of brass, so it's not guaranteed to be absolutely identical, but it will be made of the same alloy and as long as you load it all the same and the same number of times, it will share a matching load history. Both of those factors tend to make bullet pull consistent, and that does help precision on paper at longer ranges.
That is true in .308/7.62 and occasionally in .30-06. I've seen enough difference in commercial .308 and military 7.62 to get to as much as 2 grains charge weight difference in some brass lots for constant pressure. But in .223/5.56 the military cases, if anything, are on the lighter side of the range and have a little extra capacity, so it is the other way around there. Scroll down about 1/4-1/3 of the way on this page and you will see a fairly large comparison of case weights and case water overflow capacities for this cartridge. LC and WCC actually were the lightest and had the most case capacity in this group, and so would need the most powder.
Road_Clam,
The U.S. military loads to the SCATP 5.56 standard which uses the same type of test instrumentation SAAMI does and loads to the same maximum 55,000 psi pressure limit SAAMI does using that instrumentation (the European NATO countries use different instrumentation that gives a higher pressure number (4300 bar or 62,366 psi) for the same cartridge in the same chamber, but the absolute pressures are actually the same as they calibrate their systems using the same reference load lots; the difference in the pressure numbers is just due to a measuring method difference plus a little rounding error from NATO and SAAMI to the nearest 50 bar and 500 psi, respectively, as they do with these pressure levels).
There are, however, two things that can make the military load pressure a little higher. One is their apparatus has a 5.56 minimum chamber, where the SAAMI apparatus has a SAAMI .223 minimum chamber. The 5.56 chamber is more generous, however, you can calculate the resulting pressure difference by a couple of different methods or use QuickLOAD and you find the higher pressure is about 4% and still well within SAAMI individual round spread allowance within an average, and less than the SAAMI allowance for change in a lot's pressure as it ages (about 6%).
What potentially matters more is the longer freebore. The military sometimes uses long specialty bullets with ogives that are further forward and could jam a standard chamber's lands. For standard rounds it's not an issue that I've ever seen. For example, my Compass Lake match AR has a match chamber with shorter throat, but Frank White said it's fine for military loads you normally buy. I would double-check distance off the lands for any unusual military ammo like tracer ammo if I ever got any, but for ball ammo it's still got enough jump to avoid serious pressure differences (0.030" is enough). If I found a round that touched the lands I'd figure about a 20% increase in pressure could result, and while that's less than proof pressure, it's close enough that I'd be concerned about the extra wear and tear, especially on the throat.
What the woman said on the phone is probably just badly phrased. She or whoever wrote what she read to you just meant the cases could be considered either or both .223 or 5.56. Lake City brass has no chambering name on the headstamp. It just says LC ##, with the hashtags being the last two numbers of the year it was manufactured. It will not say either .223 or 5.56 on it anywhere.
I personally think it's a good idea to buy the brass you described for match shooting. They tend to use mixed tooling in lots of brass, so it's not guaranteed to be absolutely identical, but it will be made of the same alloy and as long as you load it all the same and the same number of times, it will share a matching load history. Both of those factors tend to make bullet pull consistent, and that does help precision on paper at longer ranges.
mobuck said:I've found that at least some military cases take 1/2 to 1 grain less powder to reach similar velocities as commercial cases. Does this tell you something?
That is true in .308/7.62 and occasionally in .30-06. I've seen enough difference in commercial .308 and military 7.62 to get to as much as 2 grains charge weight difference in some brass lots for constant pressure. But in .223/5.56 the military cases, if anything, are on the lighter side of the range and have a little extra capacity, so it is the other way around there. Scroll down about 1/4-1/3 of the way on this page and you will see a fairly large comparison of case weights and case water overflow capacities for this cartridge. LC and WCC actually were the lightest and had the most case capacity in this group, and so would need the most powder.
Road_Clam,
The U.S. military loads to the SCATP 5.56 standard which uses the same type of test instrumentation SAAMI does and loads to the same maximum 55,000 psi pressure limit SAAMI does using that instrumentation (the European NATO countries use different instrumentation that gives a higher pressure number (4300 bar or 62,366 psi) for the same cartridge in the same chamber, but the absolute pressures are actually the same as they calibrate their systems using the same reference load lots; the difference in the pressure numbers is just due to a measuring method difference plus a little rounding error from NATO and SAAMI to the nearest 50 bar and 500 psi, respectively, as they do with these pressure levels).
There are, however, two things that can make the military load pressure a little higher. One is their apparatus has a 5.56 minimum chamber, where the SAAMI apparatus has a SAAMI .223 minimum chamber. The 5.56 chamber is more generous, however, you can calculate the resulting pressure difference by a couple of different methods or use QuickLOAD and you find the higher pressure is about 4% and still well within SAAMI individual round spread allowance within an average, and less than the SAAMI allowance for change in a lot's pressure as it ages (about 6%).
What potentially matters more is the longer freebore. The military sometimes uses long specialty bullets with ogives that are further forward and could jam a standard chamber's lands. For standard rounds it's not an issue that I've ever seen. For example, my Compass Lake match AR has a match chamber with shorter throat, but Frank White said it's fine for military loads you normally buy. I would double-check distance off the lands for any unusual military ammo like tracer ammo if I ever got any, but for ball ammo it's still got enough jump to avoid serious pressure differences (0.030" is enough). If I found a round that touched the lands I'd figure about a 20% increase in pressure could result, and while that's less than proof pressure, it's close enough that I'd be concerned about the extra wear and tear, especially on the throat.
Unclenick said:What potentially matters more is the longer freebore. The military sometimes uses long specialty bullets with ogives that are further forward and could jam a standard chamber's lands. For standard rounds it's not an issue that I've ever seen. For example, my Compass Lake match AR has a match chamber with shorter throat, but Frank White said it's fine for military loads you normally buy. I would double-check distance off the lands for any unusual military ammo like tracer ammo if I ever got any, but for ball ammo it's still got enough jump to avoid serious pressure differences (0.030" is enough). If I found a round that touched the lands I'd figure about a 20% increase in pressure could result, and while that's less than proof pressure, it's close enough that I'd be concerned about the extra wear and tear, especially on the throat.
Great Info, and the above comment is the main reason I've learned to now ogive seat bullets using the Hornady ogive tool. .025" off the lands for both my R700 bolt guns seems to yield consistent accuracy and velocities.
I've had excellent success loading .22 and .30 cal LC brass. I purchased about 200 once fired casings of .308 LC LR (LR meaning Long Range") I use the LR for when I shoot midrange prone matches at my club.
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