Firstly, by way of introduction, let me say that I have been a lurker here for several years now and have greatly enjoyed the many interesting posts. My knowledge has grown from the shared wisdom of many here. I am a 20 ga. fan and for forty years or so have done most of my shooting with that guage. Reading the many posts regarding short barreled home defense guns, it began to dawn on me that one of these might be fun to try. I am not a clay target shooter but just a Catskill mountain woods loafer and hunter. I thought a short barrel shotgun would be a handy car gun and to carry on hikes and hunts at the country property we own in addition to its home defense role. My thought was that the more uses I could find for this gun the more I would shoot it and the better I would get with it.
I wasn't impressed with the new 870 express models with the rough finish and the trigger lock. I tried without success locally to find an old wingmaster in 20 ga. I finally noticed the Lady Defender at the Winchester web site. This wasn't a costly gun even new and I was fascinated with the rotary bolt action. I also thought I might like the bright fiber optic sight for early and late hunting in the dark forest. I got one of these little carbines operational about March of this year and have been having a lot of fun with it since. More recently I read Oleg Volk's review of this gun and the comments on it. I would be tempted to contribute my own review if there was any interest as this arm isn't as popular as the others discussed here and there isn't an awfully lot written about it.
I have had a lot of fun the last few years developing and shooting round ball slug loads in the 20 ga. It is easy to get a 58 cal round ball mold. Lee makes an inexpensive one and that is what I use. These balls are a reasonably good fit in a 20 ga. plastic wad cup, just slightly oversize. Initially I used soft lead as the muzzle loaders do, but came to feel that it was too soft for best accuracy with fast smokeless powder. Recently I have been using water quenched wheelweight metal balls with the defender and the accuracy has been very good by shotgun and Foster slug standards. I load a 7/8 oz. size claybuster wad into a Win. or Rem. case over a skeet load of Unique (I have just began experimenting with Herco). I dump in enough instant oatmeal flakes to about fill the shot cup and tamp this down good. This fills the shotcup about half full. I seat the ball on top of the oatmeal flakes and then crimp with the standard pie crimp. The resulting load is good for about 1.5" groups at my 30 yard range with many irregular one hole groups of three shots. I get the feeling that it will shoot about as well as I can hold with the bead just showing above the receiver groove. It gives very pleasant shooting. Recoil is about like a .28 ga. or heavy .410 load. These balls are easy to cast, no lubing or sizing needed, give no leading (you can shoot a lot of 'em and clean the tube easily), and are a hoot to shoot. Not recommended for choke bore guns.
The barrel of the L. Defender is a real brute with lots of metal at the breech end and the muzzle about twice as thick as my bird guns. Radially it would probably hold an elephant cartridge of 60 cal. (I think this arm is built on a 12 ga. frame, at least the magazine tube is easily large enough for that ga.) The rotary bolt appears to be very strong also. There are four locking lugs spaced around the head of the case and they lock up only about 1/4 inch back of the case head. This leaves the rest of the action completely unstressed. It has begun to dawn on me that this little arm may potentially be capable of very powerful round ball loads. The gun has a 3" chamber and lots of room for powder. I am thinking of developing some powerful close range wild boar stoppers for it. Present skeet charge velocities are about 1200 fps or so and shoot through anything I have at the range site with the water quenched balls. Winchester Foster slugs of 7/8 oz are listed about 1600 fps. and the 5/8 oz musket ball could easily exceed this by a couple of hundred fps in the heavy barrel Defender. A 275 gr. hardened ball of 58 caliber at 1800 fps or so should take down about anything that walks in the Catskill or any other forest if the range is short.
Present problem is to find the correct powder and charge to accomplish this. Unique is way to fast and will overpressure long before max velocity is reached. I am starting to experiment with a can of Herco but I think this is also too fast for what I have in mind. Perhaps about 30 grains of Blue Dot will give a sharp cracking load! NOT A RECOMMENDATION!! Alliant's web site is no help with heavy 20 ga. loads.
Anyone out there with advice or comments along these lines? Anyone have hunting experiences with short cyl.barrel tac. guns or interested in more info on the Lady Defender?
Sorry to be so long. Thanks.
I wasn't impressed with the new 870 express models with the rough finish and the trigger lock. I tried without success locally to find an old wingmaster in 20 ga. I finally noticed the Lady Defender at the Winchester web site. This wasn't a costly gun even new and I was fascinated with the rotary bolt action. I also thought I might like the bright fiber optic sight for early and late hunting in the dark forest. I got one of these little carbines operational about March of this year and have been having a lot of fun with it since. More recently I read Oleg Volk's review of this gun and the comments on it. I would be tempted to contribute my own review if there was any interest as this arm isn't as popular as the others discussed here and there isn't an awfully lot written about it.
I have had a lot of fun the last few years developing and shooting round ball slug loads in the 20 ga. It is easy to get a 58 cal round ball mold. Lee makes an inexpensive one and that is what I use. These balls are a reasonably good fit in a 20 ga. plastic wad cup, just slightly oversize. Initially I used soft lead as the muzzle loaders do, but came to feel that it was too soft for best accuracy with fast smokeless powder. Recently I have been using water quenched wheelweight metal balls with the defender and the accuracy has been very good by shotgun and Foster slug standards. I load a 7/8 oz. size claybuster wad into a Win. or Rem. case over a skeet load of Unique (I have just began experimenting with Herco). I dump in enough instant oatmeal flakes to about fill the shot cup and tamp this down good. This fills the shotcup about half full. I seat the ball on top of the oatmeal flakes and then crimp with the standard pie crimp. The resulting load is good for about 1.5" groups at my 30 yard range with many irregular one hole groups of three shots. I get the feeling that it will shoot about as well as I can hold with the bead just showing above the receiver groove. It gives very pleasant shooting. Recoil is about like a .28 ga. or heavy .410 load. These balls are easy to cast, no lubing or sizing needed, give no leading (you can shoot a lot of 'em and clean the tube easily), and are a hoot to shoot. Not recommended for choke bore guns.
The barrel of the L. Defender is a real brute with lots of metal at the breech end and the muzzle about twice as thick as my bird guns. Radially it would probably hold an elephant cartridge of 60 cal. (I think this arm is built on a 12 ga. frame, at least the magazine tube is easily large enough for that ga.) The rotary bolt appears to be very strong also. There are four locking lugs spaced around the head of the case and they lock up only about 1/4 inch back of the case head. This leaves the rest of the action completely unstressed. It has begun to dawn on me that this little arm may potentially be capable of very powerful round ball loads. The gun has a 3" chamber and lots of room for powder. I am thinking of developing some powerful close range wild boar stoppers for it. Present skeet charge velocities are about 1200 fps or so and shoot through anything I have at the range site with the water quenched balls. Winchester Foster slugs of 7/8 oz are listed about 1600 fps. and the 5/8 oz musket ball could easily exceed this by a couple of hundred fps in the heavy barrel Defender. A 275 gr. hardened ball of 58 caliber at 1800 fps or so should take down about anything that walks in the Catskill or any other forest if the range is short.
Present problem is to find the correct powder and charge to accomplish this. Unique is way to fast and will overpressure long before max velocity is reached. I am starting to experiment with a can of Herco but I think this is also too fast for what I have in mind. Perhaps about 30 grains of Blue Dot will give a sharp cracking load! NOT A RECOMMENDATION!! Alliant's web site is no help with heavy 20 ga. loads.
Anyone out there with advice or comments along these lines? Anyone have hunting experiences with short cyl.barrel tac. guns or interested in more info on the Lady Defender?
Sorry to be so long. Thanks.