LabRadar updates?

A

Aguila Blanca

Staff
I need to do some load development for oddball cartridges such as .44 Colt Original, which will be fired from single action Colt (clone) revolvers. I shoot at an indoor range, which has a CED Millennium chronograph I can use, but I have had bad luck with shooting the skyscreen supports, and they're pricey to replace.

I'm intrigued by the allure of a chronograph that doesn't require taking the range cold to set it up, and then taking the range cold again to take it down. If I were shooting rifle, the Magnetospeed might be an option, but I can't see any way to strap that onto the barrel of a Colt or Remington clone revolver. So I'm considering the LabRadar, but before dropping the coin for it I'd like some assurance that it will work.

I found a discussion of the LabRadar dating back to 2021: https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=612683&highlight=labradar

Does anyone have any newer information/results using the LabRadar? I will probably be using it almost exclusively for handgun, and once I get through the revolver stuff I'll be playing with 1911 loads -- so, again, not a candidate for the Magnetospeed.

Just how finicky is the LabRadar?
 
I have been using labradar since I shot my last chrono some 8 years ago. No problem at all. I have used it on almost all sort of projectile launching devices, including airgun and sling shot.

Having said that, I have never tried it in an indoor range.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
If you are looking to buy one, i would get the garmin. Saving up for one now. Got a chance to use one, not even considering the labradar anymore.
 
Labradar needs to catch up quickly.
Garmin is more accurate and more sensitive (the good kind of sensitivity) up close, and far, far easier to use.

In the precision rimfire world, it went from 1 Labradar per 30 shooters that wanted one, and 1 Caldwell or FX per 200-300 shooters; to 1 Garmin per half dozen shooters overall. And no one wants the Labradar, Caldwell, or FX products now. There are multiple for sale in our local club, with no interested parties.
The Garmin is lacking in some areas that we would really like capabilities expanded. But the simplicity and ease of use are outstanding. Unrivaled, one might say.

The answer is Garmin, at least until someone finds a way to better them at the same price point.
(I don't see it happening any time soon; but: 5 yd data points and solid tracking out to 200 yd on a .22 cal projectile would be nice, for example. Would allow partial custom drag profiles to be built for any load. Rimfire guys would pay almost twice as much for that capability, let alone centerfire precision shooters [where it would, hopefully work to greater distance].)
 
Labradar has announced a new unit to compete with Garmin, supposed to ship in June. Info here.

Apparently they will continue to sell the original Labradar unit, at a reduced price, for it's downrange capabilities. The Garmin and the new Labradar, with their wider radar beam, deliver muzzle velocity only as they can not track the bullet downrange. So there is a definite tradeoff between the convenient setup of the new units versus the downrange tracking capability of the original Labradar.

AB, you can probably buy a used original Labradar at quite a discount over a new unit.
 
Nice! It's $50 cheaper than the original LabRadar, and it includes the tripod and the external trigger, both of which are extras from LabRadar.
Click to expand...
I thought the Caldwell spokesperson was being a tad inaccurate in his assessment of the labradar by implying it does not record velocity at the muzzle since it's dopplar (implying the velocities recorded are inherently inaccurate)-- it calculates it from the point of bullet/beam intercept and then derives the velocity back to the muzzle. What is true about labradar's shortcomings is that it does not have the convenience of ease of use compared to the smaller units and the labradar is more likely to miss picking up a bullet at the muzzle if the positioning of the instrument isn't optimal. Good results from the labradar requires aiming skills--kinda like using irons at long ranges.:)
 
And then another guy shows up at the range with a Labradar and you're in interference hell, regardless of the t-square. Don't even get started with Labradar #3 in the mix.

I am absolutely not trying to say that the Garmin is god's gift to man. It is limited in many ways.
But on Apr 20, my son and I were on the sight-in range for an NRL22X match in Price, Utah. Covered range, hard surfaces everywhere, including steel and plywood of all shapes and sizes from 10 yd to 100 yd. Some systems can't handle these hard surfaces.

There were about 60 people on the range at the time (for a match that ended up with a record-setting 143 competitors). Muzzle reports and bullets flying every which way, for the (weirdly) limited number of targets available.
I saw at least 20 of the Garmin units in use. (One for every 3 shooters, minimum.) No one was complaining about performance. Labradar users would not have been so happy in the same confines. They probably would not have gotten any readings at all.

The guy next to me, about 6 feet away, asked if I needed to use his Garmin unit (this is a common thing now that Garmin is the go-to, but was rare with Labradar).
I politely declined and turned my head to see how my son was doing with his rifle.
As I heard the stranger say, "No, make sure your velocity is good," I felt a thump against the side of my chest.
He had folded the legs and tossed it. It bounced off of my shooting mat, then my side, and came to rest on the concrete.

It is a common theme with the Garmins. Share and risk abuse, like a GoPro camera.
But Labradar? Nope. Considered too fragile to move. Too sensitive to tweak.

Come to think of it, I actually didn't see a single Labradar at that match. 143 shooters at a national-level match - one of the last of the season for qualifying points - and not a single Labradar, Caldwell, or FX unit to be seen.
But Garmin was everywhere. People were even using them on stages during the match. (To constantly map, or be aware of, velocity changes with temp changes.)

If you don't shoot in any competition or 'busy public range' circumstances, then 90% of my anecdotal support for the Garmin is useless. But I can tell you from my observation and experience over the last few months that Labradar (and FX and Caldwell) is dead to competition shooters.
Garmin has the high ground.
Ease of use and simplicity of operation are absolutely dominating the competition scene right now.
 
FrankenMauser, you raise an interesting point, and it's not one I can easily investigate:

The indoor range where I shoot is old, and underground. EVERYTHING about it is hard surfaces. The two side walls are poured concrete, and the backstop/bullet trap is a moat filled with water, and a very heavy sheet of steel set at a 45-degree angle to deflect the bullets down into the moat.

I wonder if the radar would be confused by pings off the hard surfaces ...

Maybe I'll just soldier on with my CED Millennium and hope I don't shoot the sky screen supports (again).
 
And then another guy shows up at the range with a Labradar and you're in interference hell, regardless of the t-square.
Click to expand...
Been running one for (at least) five years w/o an issue in that regard.

Somebody with a tank-braked BeoWoof immediately beside you? ... yeah maybe.
But then just turn the trigger sensitivity down.
(I have had to do that)

FMauser, you indicate you've had to go through several LRs.
What happened in your own individual experience?



FWIW: If downrange velocity/BC info weren't of continuing interest to me w/ dozens of custom-cast bullets/work-up, Garmin might be of greater interest here.
So far, though LR's the only game in town for that.
Anything else w/ that on the horizon?

Post postscript: Has anyone solved the Garmin data transfer challenge ? (sans smartphone, which I won't touch)

.
 
Last edited:
Franken brings up a valid point--the ease of use for the smaller units is a huge plus in fast-paced environment where shooters and managers may need to know on-the-fly velocities or power factors. The down-range velocity and energy advantages are probably going to be of more interest to shooters who are mostly interested in load development and have the time and space to leisurely set up an optimal position--or adapt to a less than optimal position. I fall into that category. I bought the labradar when it first came out and my unit is so old and battered that I'll likely need to replace it sooner or later so I personally am quite happy these competing products are coming out--puts more pressure on new enhancements. It looks to me like there is a divergence between in-the-field quick velocity readout and down-range recordings mostly of interest to those inclined to use them for load development. When somebody succeeds in combining the two--that's my next purchase. :)
 
I use my Garmin in an indoor range with the slanted backstop/water trough also. It will pick up a neighbor's shot if
you are right next to them, but only if they are spraying and praying. Normal shooting it works like a champ from 22 to 45
and the phone app is nice as well.
Would not consider Labrador due to its size.
 
My Garmin is subject to crosstalk from gunshots in the next two lanes of the indoor range. Third one out is ok.
My approach is to come in at off hours and ask for an end lane.
If somebody sets up next to me, I can usually fire my shots while he is reloading and idle the chronograph while he is blazing away.
Or shoot outdoors, now the weather has warmed.

My CED is nice with lots of bells and whistles. If I had a South 40 for solitary shooting, it would still be my choice, but setup on a public or club range is aggravating.
 
The indoor range where I shoot is old, and underground. EVERYTHING about it is hard surfaces. The two side walls are poured concrete, and the backstop/bullet trap is a moat filled with water, and a very heavy sheet of steel set at a 45-degree angle to deflect the bullets down into the moat.

I wonder if the radar would be confused by pings off the hard surfaces ...
Click to expand...
I don't fully understand why some units have issues with returns from stationary surfaces. Perhaps it is related to vibration or movement from muzzle blast.
Unfortunately, I also lack the ability to test.
I don't own any of the units mentioned. I use a Chrony Beta Master for centerfire loads and development. It will sometimes give me usable readings for .22 LR.
But I mostly just use other people's Garmin units at matches, now. Morning-of data is nearly always better than months-old data, anyway.


mehavey said:
FMauser, you indicate you've had to go through several LRs.
What happened in your own individual experience?
Click to expand...
No. I'm not sure where you got that impression.
I have never owned a Labradar.
I signed up for pre-order, before they hit the market. $299 (so expensive!). But once they admitted that down-range tracking was not as good as hoped, especially for .22 and .24 cal projectiles, I cancelled my pre-order.
I wasn't doing any competition-oriented precision .22 LR stuff at the time, but I wanted to get very accurate tracking for centerfire .22s and 6mms, and the production version of Labradar just wasn't going to have the initially-promised capability.
I was disappointed, even though we know now that it probably would have still been a very useful tool.


Both of the above admissions of not owning any of the current units comes back to me also not seeing Garmin as the holy grail. It is dominating in competition environments right now, and it is very nice to have so many shooters willing to toss their unit to you to get some velocity readings.
But I don't want one.

I want the next generation.
I want the ease of use, simplicity of operation, and compactness of the Garmin.
But I want the (future, improved) down-range tracking of the Labradar/Caldwell units.

I want it all.
And when someone brings that to market, perhaps I can also pick up one of the current Garmin units, used, for cheap. :D
 
Well........
At noon today I broke down/ordered a Garmin from Amazon.
They delivered it at Four . . . .

I charged it for 10 min while reading the QuickStart
Took it out to the range at Five.
I'm impressed at its simplicity.

FWIW: Winchester 115gr 9mm Target/RN is 1,400fps out of a 16" S&W FPC.






Gonna have to read the actual instructions sometime.....







(still keeping the LabRadar in the trunk though -- and the Oehler-35 in the garage.)

.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top