L.C. 308 Brass problem

R

reynolds357

New member
I bought about 1000 Lake City once fired brass. It came sized, ready to load. Brass will not fit in the chamber of any of my .308 rifles. I thought no problem, I will just full length size it. Still wont fit in two rifles. It will go in the third, but very hard to close the bolt. (This is empty brass, not loaded). I thought, Ok, I will trim it to correct length for RCBS small base X die and run it through that. One rifle chambers it with minimum bolt pressure. One the bolt is very stiff. One I would have to beat with a hammer to close it.

Any ideas? Every other brass I have ever loaded works flawless in all 3 rifles.
 
Sounds like it was originally fired through a rather generous chamber which is typical. I've had the occasional piece that wouldn't resize, 3 or 4% at most and usually less than that.
How many cases have you tried resizing?
Have you measured base-to-datum before and after to see if you're actually changing anything?
 
A lot of once-fired military brass has come out of full-auto weapons, which can stretch it enough that it doesn't resize in a standard die and has to be run through a small base die once to be returned to standard size. If you don't have a small base die or can't borrow one for that one remaining piece, I would try the trick of lubing it, running it into the tightest die you have, count to five, withdraw it, turn it 1/3 rotation and repeat, then withdraw it and do that a third time. This not only tends to get a couple more thousandths off your shoulder-to-case head measurement, but it also ensures that a rim bent by high force extraction has its high spot leaning on the supporting portion of the shell holder for at least a couple of those strokes to eliminate that as a possible source of the hangup.
 
L.E. Wilson Case Length Headspace Gauge

Look at this a different way, take these rifles out of the equation. Do you have a Case gauge for your 308's? If it fits in the case gauge then it's something with the rifles headspace? Very simple answer.
 
If you do not have a case gauge, get out your micrometer and check each dimension against the SAAMI diagram. My Sierra 5.0 has it, or Google it.
Then, get a case gauge.
IMO, if you load any caliber, then you need a case gauge for it. I really like the Sheridan slotted case gauges. They have a cut out that lets you see exactly where it is out of spec, usually at the shoulder. I have some unfired LC pull down, and the first step is sorting out the out of spec and figuring how to remediate.
It is also very important to understand each rifle's chamber. They vary. I have a Savage 10 FPK 223 with a tight chamber and an Axis 223 with either a longer throat, or, throat erosion, that lets me load to longer COAL. I load differently for each.
I bought an endoscope to look at that longer throat, I think it was cut-that way (no picture yet; software install is tricky):
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PBF6DX5/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apa_i_T8GIEb5590KGE
 
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Unclenick said:
A lot of once-fired military brass has come out of full-auto weapons, which can stretch it enough that it doesn't resize in a standard die and has to be run through a small base die once to be returned to standard size. If you don't have a small base die or can't borrow one for that one remaining piece, I would try the trick of lubing it, running it into the tightest die you have, count to five, withdraw it, turn it 1/3 rotation and repeat, then withdraw it and do that a third time. This not only tends to get a couple more thousandths off your shoulder-to-case head measurement, but it also ensures that a rim bent by high force extraction has its high spot leaning on the supporting portion of the shell holder for at least a couple of those strokes to eliminate that as a possible source of the hangup.
Click to expand...
I ran it through small base RCBS X die. That was ladt thing I tried.
 
Case gauge slipped my mind. I have one, just have to find it. I can assure you the headspace is correct in two of the rifles. I cut the chamber in one myself and I would bet a pile of money the Smith who built it got it right. ( I would bet money because I have checked headspace on it). The third is just an old hunting rifle. Its the loosest so I am sure it has the most generous headspace.
 
Congrats. Ya got yourself some MG fired brass. No doubt the web area of the brass is blown out of spec. I was there once, and PM me if you want to know how I got the brass so it would chamber.

Don
 
Reynolds357,

When that small base die doesn't work and if my method of getting the rim supported evenly doesn't help (or you don't want to bother with it) you can try Mr. Guffey's method of slipping a feeler gauge under the head in the shell holder, so it forces the whole case up by the thickness of the gauge. That gets it sized down that much more. I can usually squeeze about a 0.005" feeler gauge of the standard automotive variety into a standard .308 shell holder under a case head up to about 0.005" thick, which causes the case body to enter the sizing die by that additional amount. It also pushes the pressure ring area that much further into the die, which helps if that area is the source of the problem.

Do you see scuffing on the sides of the ill-fitting brass? You can always color it with Magic Marker to find out where the chamber is contacting it.
 
If you eventually get a couple sized down far enough to fit, might try just a couple cases in a series to see how long they last. Learned that even if you can get them sized down far enough, is it worth the effort for 1 or 2 firings? Went through this once and learned.
 
@USSR: I would like to know too. Why not post your procedure?
Click to expand...

To tell you the truth, it's rather unconventional, and I would rather not go thru the grief I would no doubt receive for suggesting it. Let's let reynolds357 try it, and if it works for him, then I will post it. Fair enough?

Don
 
I am happy to report that reynolds357 found success getting his MG fired brass back into spec. Below is what I told him to do:

This is going to sound strange, so bear with me. Take a .30-06 sizing die and use it. It will only make contact with the web portion of the 7.62x51 brass (which is blown out from being fired in a MG) and reduce it in diameter. After that, run the brass thru your .308 sizing die. Please let me know how it works out for you.

Perhaps now you understand why I did not post it immediately. I would have been pilloried (and yet may be). I learned it from an old timer, and so this old timer passes it on to you. It does work.

Don
 
Full length sizing 7.62/308 fired cases in a 30-06 FL die will usually start sizing the case at its shoulder/body junction then all the way back to its pressure ring web. The resized case body will have more taper. And more length from head to shoulder.

Calculate the taper per inch for each using SAAMI drawings, compare then learn.
 
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Bart B. said:
Full length sizing 7.62/308 fired cases in a 30-06 FL die will usually start sizing the case at its shoulder/body junction then all the way back to its pressure ring web. The resized case body will have more taper. And more length from head to shoulder.

Calculate the taper per inch for each using SAAMI drawings, compare then learn.
Click to expand...
What is your suggestion? A small base RCBS X die is not getting it done.
 
I do not think he has a suggestion. He is just making an observation. The 3006 die has a different taper that starts sizing. If it worked it. It worked, didn't it?
 
Bart, my friend, I knew I could count on you to weigh in on something you have no direct knowledge of and have never tried, as long as it involves something I have said. You are wrong; the only contact of any consequence is in the web area of the .308 brass. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but it works.

Don
 
I've done that and learned it happens.

Smear layout dye on a fired 308 case then push it into a 30-06 FL die. Pull the case out then see where the dye is wiped away.
 
I've done that and learned what happens; brass web area is reduced and after resizing with a .308 die, brass fits chamber. This ain't rocket science.

Don
 
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