Surprise, surprise!
http://www.courier-journal.com/localnews/2000/0007/24/000724gun.html
Concealed-gun law hasn't triggered violence
Crime rate among licensed carriers has been very low
By ANDREW WOLFSON
The Courier-Journal
Despite the fears of opponents, who branded it the "gunslinger bill," the law enacted in 1996 allowing Kentuckians to carry concealed handguns hasn't triggered wholesale violence or shootouts in the streets.
Figures the state police are required to collect annually under the the statute show that permit holders are less likely to be charged with violent crimes than the population at large.
Only five murder charges were placed against permit holders from 1997 through 1999, or fewer than two per year. Similarly small numbers of forcible rape and assault charges were filed against them. The figures don't specify the weapons used in the crimes. The murder charges, for example, conceivably could be for deaths by stabbing.
"None of our concerns have been borne out," said Hazard police Chief Rod Maggard, president of the Kentucky Chiefs of Police Association, which opposed the concealed-carry bill for fear it would invite citizens to take the law into their own hands.
The law's author, Rep. Robert Damron, D-Nicholsville, said its stringent criminal-background checks and relatively expensive fees for licensing and training have combined to make permit holders "a very law-abiding group."
Opponents concede that their gravest concerns haven't materialized, but they still oppose the law on philosophical grounds because they say it breeds mistrust and undermines a sense of community. "It feeds an attitude that guns are a way to solve our problems," said Nancy Jo Kemper, who heads the Kentucky Council of Churches.
SINCE THE LAW went into effect in November 1996, 59,941 people have obtained permits, including 4,009 who have let them expire. As of July 14, 55,932 permits were in force.
Supporters and opponents of the law point to anecdotal evidence that they say bolsters their positions.
Detractors, including Jefferson County police Chief William Carcara, who contend that concealed carry poses too great a risk of accidental shootings, cite the June 30 incident at Tinseltown theaters in eastern Jefferson County in which a .22-caliber derringer discharged after falling from the pocket of a moviegoer who had a permit to carry it. The bullet struck the gun's owner, William Newland, 34, in the leg, then hit Juanita Sparks, 60, in the hip.
"I wish they'd pass a law that nobody could carry concealed weapons except for police officers," said Sparks, who was treated overnight in a hospital for her wound and was still limping several weeks later.
Police and prosecutors say the incident exposes a loophole in the law: It allows businesses such as the cinema to post signs barring concealed weapons but imposes no penalty on patrons who ignore them. Damron said a penalty was deliberately omitted from the law to avoid criminalizing the conduct of a permit holder who went into a business "forgetting she had a gun in her purse."
County police and the commonwealth's attorney's office have said they are exploring whether Newland can be charged with another crime, such as wanton endangerment.
Opponents of the concealed-carry law also say it can allow simple arguments to escalate into fatal ones -- such as on May 8, when James Brian Morris, 32, was fatally shot after an argument on Dixie Highway in what county police said appeared to have been a case of "road rage." Kevin T. Dupont, 28, who has pleaded innocent to a charge of murder, had a concealed-carry permit.
The victim's uncle, Bill Morris, said the law makes it too easy for those with permits to settle arguments with a gun. He also said the family suspects that Dupont -- a county planner who has been suspended from his job -- wouldn't have had a weapon if not for the permit law because as a government bureaucrat, he had no reason to carry a weapon. Dupont's phone has been disconnected, and his lawyer, Franklin Jewell, said he didn't know whether his client carried a gun in his car -- which is legal even without a permit -- before the concealed-carry statute was enacted.
DAMRON AND OTHER gun advocates say there are more examples of permit holders using their weapons to protect themselves and foil crimes than to injure innocent victims, though statistics are not kept on the circumstances under which permit holders discharge their weapons:
On Aug. 19, 1999, Joseph Megerle, a permit holder, was out for a morning walk in Covington with a .25-caliber automatic tucked into his exercise pants when Jamie Kennedy, 28, a felon, pulled his own gun and tried to rob Megerle, police said. Megerle, who later told police that he feared for his life, fired twice, hitting Kennedy in the head and chest, seriously wounding him.
Kennedy, who was wanted on charges of robbing a convenience store earlier the same day, sought treatment at a hospital, where police arrested him, said James T. Redwine, an assistant Kenton County commonwealth's attorney. Megerle was not charged with any offense, and police credit him with assisting them in Kennedy's apprehension in the robbery. "Because of the gunshot injury, we were able to track him down," Redwine said. Kennedy is charged with robbery in both cases and with being a persistent felon.
On May 12, 1997, Ann Barry, 60, also a permit holder, was awakened shortly before midnight in her home outside Bowling Green by a burglar who had kicked open her garage door and entered her home. She fired one shot at him, and he returned four. She wasn't injured, but James R. Sugart, 28, was critically wounded.
State police found him in a field nearby. Barry's shooting was ruled justified; Sugart, who pleaded guilty to attempted murder, burglary and being a persistent felon, was sentenced to 25 years in prison.
Barry, a history instructor at Western Kentucky University's Glasgow's campus who got a permit because she is often on the road, could have had the gun in her house without the license. The law allows permit holders to carry concealed weapons in public, but permits aren't required to keep handguns in homes or cars, even if they are in glove compartments.
But in an interview, Barry said the eight hours of training required to get a permit "made me more confident in what I had to do."
In the most publicized case, Clifford R. Meadows, the owner of Cottage Inn restaurant on Eastern Parkway, reached into his car on July 8, 1998, pulled out a .22-caliber revolver and exchanged fire with a man who had just robbed a bank on South Preston Street. Meadows hit the man once in the neck, and the robber and two accomplices were arrested near Midway, Ky.
Police said they were grateful Meadows tried to foil the robbery but that his actions were nonetheless dangerous and ill-advised. Ronald T. Bolden, 20, was sentenced earlier this year to 370 months in prison for armed robbery, conspiracy and using a gun in a federal crime.
Meadows said he got a permit in the first month after the concealed-carry bill became law in November 1996 because he carries restaurant cash.
"It gives me more security," he said.
The state estimated that as many as 150,000 to 200,000 Kentuckians would apply for permits in the first three years of the program -- about three times the actual number of applicants. But Damron said the projection was made before the bill was drafted and was based on a fee of only $25 rather than the $60 enacted and on less rigorous and expensive training requirements. "Any time you increase the cost of something it will reduce the number of folks who will buy it," he said.
More than half the 59,941 licenses issued through July 14 were handed out during the first 14 months of the program, state police records show. About 1 percent of the applicants were disqualified because of information found in background checks, ranging from felony convictions to convictions on two DUIs. A Courier-Journal comparison of state police figures on the the crime rate of permit holders with the crime rate of the state population at large shows that murder charges were placed against permit holders at a rate of 3.8 per 100,000 compared with 6.1 per 100,000 for the population at large during the three most recent years available.
The data show that the average number of charges a year against permit holders for attempted murder was 4.6; for domestic assault, 45; and for trafficking in controlled substances and marijuana, 22. The data do not reveal whether a gun was used in any of the crimes.
Because lawmakers intentionally limited public information about permit holders to their names (ages, addresses and even counties of residence are not released), it is impossible to systematically check licensees' records for new charges involving handguns.
State police, however, do check for new convictions and protective orders every three to six months, or as often as the Administrative Office of the Courts provides the necessary records. Those checks have resulted in 112 suspensions of permits, all for domestic-violence orders.
Damron said the annual reports on charges and convictions show that "just because somebody has a gun it doesn't mean they are going to commit a crime with it."
Rep. Bob Heleringer, R-Louisville, who was an outspoken opponent of the concealed-carry legislation, said:
"Bob Damron gives me a daily update on the lack of blood running in the streets. But if concealed carry is so great, why does almost every building and store in the state have a sign on it saying no concealed weapons allowed? If it's so great, how come nobody wants it?"
-- 30 --
There's also a good link to current Kentucky CCW laws and which states do/do not recognize KY's license. http://www.courier-journal.com/localnews/2000/0007/24/000724gunbox.html
------------------
The New World Order has a Third Reich odor.
http://www.courier-journal.com/localnews/2000/0007/24/000724gun.html
Concealed-gun law hasn't triggered violence
Crime rate among licensed carriers has been very low
By ANDREW WOLFSON
The Courier-Journal
Despite the fears of opponents, who branded it the "gunslinger bill," the law enacted in 1996 allowing Kentuckians to carry concealed handguns hasn't triggered wholesale violence or shootouts in the streets.
Figures the state police are required to collect annually under the the statute show that permit holders are less likely to be charged with violent crimes than the population at large.
Only five murder charges were placed against permit holders from 1997 through 1999, or fewer than two per year. Similarly small numbers of forcible rape and assault charges were filed against them. The figures don't specify the weapons used in the crimes. The murder charges, for example, conceivably could be for deaths by stabbing.
"None of our concerns have been borne out," said Hazard police Chief Rod Maggard, president of the Kentucky Chiefs of Police Association, which opposed the concealed-carry bill for fear it would invite citizens to take the law into their own hands.
The law's author, Rep. Robert Damron, D-Nicholsville, said its stringent criminal-background checks and relatively expensive fees for licensing and training have combined to make permit holders "a very law-abiding group."
Opponents concede that their gravest concerns haven't materialized, but they still oppose the law on philosophical grounds because they say it breeds mistrust and undermines a sense of community. "It feeds an attitude that guns are a way to solve our problems," said Nancy Jo Kemper, who heads the Kentucky Council of Churches.
SINCE THE LAW went into effect in November 1996, 59,941 people have obtained permits, including 4,009 who have let them expire. As of July 14, 55,932 permits were in force.
Supporters and opponents of the law point to anecdotal evidence that they say bolsters their positions.
Detractors, including Jefferson County police Chief William Carcara, who contend that concealed carry poses too great a risk of accidental shootings, cite the June 30 incident at Tinseltown theaters in eastern Jefferson County in which a .22-caliber derringer discharged after falling from the pocket of a moviegoer who had a permit to carry it. The bullet struck the gun's owner, William Newland, 34, in the leg, then hit Juanita Sparks, 60, in the hip.
"I wish they'd pass a law that nobody could carry concealed weapons except for police officers," said Sparks, who was treated overnight in a hospital for her wound and was still limping several weeks later.
Police and prosecutors say the incident exposes a loophole in the law: It allows businesses such as the cinema to post signs barring concealed weapons but imposes no penalty on patrons who ignore them. Damron said a penalty was deliberately omitted from the law to avoid criminalizing the conduct of a permit holder who went into a business "forgetting she had a gun in her purse."
County police and the commonwealth's attorney's office have said they are exploring whether Newland can be charged with another crime, such as wanton endangerment.
Opponents of the concealed-carry law also say it can allow simple arguments to escalate into fatal ones -- such as on May 8, when James Brian Morris, 32, was fatally shot after an argument on Dixie Highway in what county police said appeared to have been a case of "road rage." Kevin T. Dupont, 28, who has pleaded innocent to a charge of murder, had a concealed-carry permit.
The victim's uncle, Bill Morris, said the law makes it too easy for those with permits to settle arguments with a gun. He also said the family suspects that Dupont -- a county planner who has been suspended from his job -- wouldn't have had a weapon if not for the permit law because as a government bureaucrat, he had no reason to carry a weapon. Dupont's phone has been disconnected, and his lawyer, Franklin Jewell, said he didn't know whether his client carried a gun in his car -- which is legal even without a permit -- before the concealed-carry statute was enacted.
DAMRON AND OTHER gun advocates say there are more examples of permit holders using their weapons to protect themselves and foil crimes than to injure innocent victims, though statistics are not kept on the circumstances under which permit holders discharge their weapons:
On Aug. 19, 1999, Joseph Megerle, a permit holder, was out for a morning walk in Covington with a .25-caliber automatic tucked into his exercise pants when Jamie Kennedy, 28, a felon, pulled his own gun and tried to rob Megerle, police said. Megerle, who later told police that he feared for his life, fired twice, hitting Kennedy in the head and chest, seriously wounding him.
Kennedy, who was wanted on charges of robbing a convenience store earlier the same day, sought treatment at a hospital, where police arrested him, said James T. Redwine, an assistant Kenton County commonwealth's attorney. Megerle was not charged with any offense, and police credit him with assisting them in Kennedy's apprehension in the robbery. "Because of the gunshot injury, we were able to track him down," Redwine said. Kennedy is charged with robbery in both cases and with being a persistent felon.
On May 12, 1997, Ann Barry, 60, also a permit holder, was awakened shortly before midnight in her home outside Bowling Green by a burglar who had kicked open her garage door and entered her home. She fired one shot at him, and he returned four. She wasn't injured, but James R. Sugart, 28, was critically wounded.
State police found him in a field nearby. Barry's shooting was ruled justified; Sugart, who pleaded guilty to attempted murder, burglary and being a persistent felon, was sentenced to 25 years in prison.
Barry, a history instructor at Western Kentucky University's Glasgow's campus who got a permit because she is often on the road, could have had the gun in her house without the license. The law allows permit holders to carry concealed weapons in public, but permits aren't required to keep handguns in homes or cars, even if they are in glove compartments.
But in an interview, Barry said the eight hours of training required to get a permit "made me more confident in what I had to do."
In the most publicized case, Clifford R. Meadows, the owner of Cottage Inn restaurant on Eastern Parkway, reached into his car on July 8, 1998, pulled out a .22-caliber revolver and exchanged fire with a man who had just robbed a bank on South Preston Street. Meadows hit the man once in the neck, and the robber and two accomplices were arrested near Midway, Ky.
Police said they were grateful Meadows tried to foil the robbery but that his actions were nonetheless dangerous and ill-advised. Ronald T. Bolden, 20, was sentenced earlier this year to 370 months in prison for armed robbery, conspiracy and using a gun in a federal crime.
Meadows said he got a permit in the first month after the concealed-carry bill became law in November 1996 because he carries restaurant cash.
"It gives me more security," he said.
The state estimated that as many as 150,000 to 200,000 Kentuckians would apply for permits in the first three years of the program -- about three times the actual number of applicants. But Damron said the projection was made before the bill was drafted and was based on a fee of only $25 rather than the $60 enacted and on less rigorous and expensive training requirements. "Any time you increase the cost of something it will reduce the number of folks who will buy it," he said.
More than half the 59,941 licenses issued through July 14 were handed out during the first 14 months of the program, state police records show. About 1 percent of the applicants were disqualified because of information found in background checks, ranging from felony convictions to convictions on two DUIs. A Courier-Journal comparison of state police figures on the the crime rate of permit holders with the crime rate of the state population at large shows that murder charges were placed against permit holders at a rate of 3.8 per 100,000 compared with 6.1 per 100,000 for the population at large during the three most recent years available.
The data show that the average number of charges a year against permit holders for attempted murder was 4.6; for domestic assault, 45; and for trafficking in controlled substances and marijuana, 22. The data do not reveal whether a gun was used in any of the crimes.
Because lawmakers intentionally limited public information about permit holders to their names (ages, addresses and even counties of residence are not released), it is impossible to systematically check licensees' records for new charges involving handguns.
State police, however, do check for new convictions and protective orders every three to six months, or as often as the Administrative Office of the Courts provides the necessary records. Those checks have resulted in 112 suspensions of permits, all for domestic-violence orders.
Damron said the annual reports on charges and convictions show that "just because somebody has a gun it doesn't mean they are going to commit a crime with it."
Rep. Bob Heleringer, R-Louisville, who was an outspoken opponent of the concealed-carry legislation, said:
"Bob Damron gives me a daily update on the lack of blood running in the streets. But if concealed carry is so great, why does almost every building and store in the state have a sign on it saying no concealed weapons allowed? If it's so great, how come nobody wants it?"
-- 30 --
There's also a good link to current Kentucky CCW laws and which states do/do not recognize KY's license. http://www.courier-journal.com/localnews/2000/0007/24/000724gunbox.html
------------------
The New World Order has a Third Reich odor.