SDC... honestly....
I'm not going to sit and argue with someone over the ballistic qualities of rounds. This will be my last on this topic... Especially when the basic argument is a silly one. But the sheer fact of a bullets impact cant be greater than the recoil? WOW... now that took some real thinking... A typical .45 ACP (230gr) hits its target at about 850fps @ 350ft lbs of force. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that there is NO WAY humanly possible, unless of course you're Superman, that the human arm can repeatedly handle a force equal to or greater than 350 ft. lbs of pressure.... (the law of input vs output... lame.... the law of equal and opposite... lammer. You have to remember that a round going off is a 'controlled or channeled explosion. Its the chamber around the round's casing that channels all the explosive force forward (98% of it anyway). If the front of that rube was solidly blocked, then yea.. it would equal out. - your 'for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction thing.... wrong physical law to apply to the FOI - force of impact). without that chamber closely wrapped around that round's casing, you'd hardly get much impact or velocity out of ANY bullet. Toss one in a camp fire, step about 50 feet away, and wait. @ 50 to 75ft your damn near completely safe (but don't forget the Murphy factor, or are you going to argue that Murphy's law is a myth too? there is that 'lucky one').
A 75gr, HP, .223 round (a very, very heavy bullet for the .223), will hit the target at 1058 pounds of pressure @ 100 yards (1259 @ muzzle), and 489lbs @ 500 yards. (dont believe me, see
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ballistics/223_remington.html)
Don't even try to argue the fact that your shoulder can take 1259lbs ONE TIME, much less 800 to 1,200 times per min.
If you want to try and make an ass out of someone publicly, at least look into the facts, and know what you're talking about before you hit the 'Submit Reply' button.
Now before you even think of responding to this, do yourself a VERY big favor, and go to
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ballistics/?url=/ballistics/45_auto.html&x=14&y=12
and compare the difference between the 9x19 Luger (the round the MP5 shoots), and the .45 ACP.
And yes... I have used both of the rounds in real life, not some fantasy people have when they have their 'pistol' concealed under their jacket or while they're reading solder of fortune magazine on the ****tier. For someone that has been in combat, knock down power is not a myth at all.... its everything. Why do you think people that hunt dangerous game, use really big friggin bullets with a LOT of power behind them... if it was a myth, why dont they use rimfire rounds? Honestly... knock down power is WAY over used terminology, but in essence, its the reason we carry HP's instead of FMJ's in our weapons. Its why elephant hunters use a stinking cannon. Its why special operations and general military units prefer the AK-47 (7.62x39 or 30cal) to the M-16, and .45 to the 9mm.
The 9mm and the .45 hit on target with nearly identical forces.... but thats just half of the equation. You also have to consider bullet weight. The weight (or mass) of an object exponentially effects any given objects impact... Slam a Ford Ranger into a brick wall @ 100mph, measure the impact force, then do the same with a F250 @ 55 and compare... which one do you think will take out more of the wall?
And nope... a hollow point from a 9mm is not equal to a hollow point of a .45 acp... the military doesn't usually use hollow points, but if they did, the 9mm would be close to a 187gr 45 FMJ. You cannot, under no circumstances, compare the two rounds together. The .45 is quite simply in a league of its own. (research the 1997 FBI pistol trials for when they were outfitting their HRT teams with new stuff... (sounds far fetched but true) the 230gr .45ACP HydroShock was the ONLY round from .22LR to 50AE that had a 100% first shot stop rate)... and why has every SOCOM unit in the US, Germany, and UK, almost exclusively dumped the 9mm pistols for the old tried and true 1911? Why is almost every major police player in the US using the 1911 - FBI and most other .govies, the LA PD SWAT, Marine MEU's (Force Recon), US Army SF, Navy SEALS, AirForce PJ/CC's.. the list goes on and on...? The general front line troop still uses the Beretta 92FS, but that is soon going to change. The government, not just DoD (before Iraq) had an open requirement and bid process going on what manufacturer could make the best.... what? .45....
The KRISS would be a FAR SUPERIOR SMG TO THE MP5 (as long as it was as reliable). Plain and simple. The recoil difference between the 9mm and the .45 is also not that much different. A trained shooter with 9mm can easily handle, with the same effectiveness, a .45. I've been shooting both rounds in competitions of various sorts all my life, I teach point and instinct shooting, I routinely put all 7 .45 rounds in the 10 ring at 22+ feet in less than 4.5s and have used both calibers (and many others) in the real world, punching holes in things that actually shoot back. I even have a MAC 10 SMG chambered in .45 and 9mm, that I own, and the recoil difference between the two, although substantially noticeable, is still negligible for accurately placing the same number of rounds into the same target, at damn near the same rate of fire. Anyone who says otherwise... needs to spend more time at the range.... They're not as good as they think they are. I can do just as much with my 1911 as I can with my P229 or P7M8 (and thats the lowest recoil 9mm handgun you can fire). Matter of fact all I carry now, and all I carried when I was active military is a custom (military read Kimber, civilian read Ed Brown & s70 Colt) 1911 loaded with 230gr Federal HydroShock (civilian) or Extreme Shock (frangible ammo that delivers over 500lbs of force on target with subsonic speed).
You are right.. a handfull of 9mm rounds in someones chest is effective. Thats why the SEALS invented the burst for the MP5, but the fact that they even needed the burts capability, should say a lot to the crappiness of the 9mm round. Especially when no Special Operations Specialist uses their weapon in full auto except for exfil and cover fire. The 9mm is the ONLY weapon that in 6 years, I trained with for typical assaults, on burst. Our 10" M4's.... single shot only unless we were buggin out. our SAW's? Well those were full auto only (most of them anyway), but we still used very short trigger pulls.
enough said.