Kimber v Sig P220 CCW?

T

traitorjack

New member
one of the incredibly friendly and generous guys at the local range lent my brother and me his Sig P220 and Kimber Target for a session, and man, I'm still in a blissful haze.

first time shooting .45; I had NO idea how accurate, manageable and natural it would be. unbelievable. I am completely sold on this caliber, based on this one session and these terrific weapons. of course, I'll be trying them and other makes/models out a few more times, but at this early stage I'm thinking it's down to either a P220 or some variety of full-framed 1911, with a lean towards the 220. At the range, they both feel great in my hands, though I did get (slightly) better groups out of the Kimber.

it's for CCW/home/business, but here's the thing: I'm not at the point where I'm comfortable carrying cocked and locked, but neither am I sure of carrying the Sig in condition 2 (full magazine, cartridge in chamber, hammer down, no safety).

I don't have any problem with the *idea* of cocked and locked, but it's a comfort level which I just don't have right now. OTOH, I'm told there's a risk of some accident impacting a 220's hammer, resulting in AD/ND. Seems pretty unlikely to me, but what's the consensus out there? Is a cocked and locked Kimber CCW safer than a P220 in condition 2?
 
traitorjack; I don't think we're talking about a 1911 vs P-220 here. We're talking about a comfort level/safety issue. You're going to get alot of good imput here but let me get my two cents in. The 1911 type pistol is just as safe as any other pistol, period. The double action P-220 is just as safe as any other pistol. What are you most comfortable with? A pistol doesn't go off magically and put a hole in your leg. It's user, user, user. I would imagine parts failure happens in about 1% of the accidental discharges. The P-220 has a trigger pull poundage of say 10 to 12 pounds. Same as say a revolver would. The 1911's pull is say 4 pounds but a few things have to happen before things go bang. Personally, I like "draw and shoot" guns. That's just me. No one else, just me. It's what I'm comfortable with. All my guns are double action pistols or revolvers. If I ever had to draw a 1911 I'd probably forget to "flick' off the safety. Just my thoughts, J. Parker :) :) :)
 
IMHO they are equally quite safe if the guns are in good mechanical condition.

The difficulty with the Sig is the training required to maintain accuracy while transitioning from a double action 1st shot to a single action 2nd shot.

My personal preference is the 1911 pattern. But, if you "like" the P 220 better, and are more comfortable with it, then go for it. They're a fine gun.

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Jim Fox
 
Own both. I never see myself carrying the SIG, just a personal preference though. I carry a full size 1911 Cocked and Locked as this is really the only way to carry this pistol.

IMHO, with quality firearms, safety is 99% training, 1% design.

If you shoot better with the Kimber, I'd say it's the "safer" pistol as the bullet will more likely end up where you want it to go.

On the matter of the AD/ND of the SIG, the trigger must be fully rearward to allow the hammer to go completely forward to contact the firing pin. IOW, it's horsehockey.

[This message has been edited by AndABeer (edited August 09, 2000).]
 
Ditto what the others said. It depends on what design you want, SA or DA/SA. The only way a Sig will fire is if the trigger is pulled all the way through to the rear. It will not AD if dropped on the hammer because the hammer is blocked from going forward because of the sear which sits in a notch in the hammer.

If the sear or the sear notch breaks and the hammer does go forward, it will still not go off because there's a firing pin block that is only deactivated if the trigger is pulled all the way to the rear; thus, it's completely drop-proof. There's also a hammer reset spring that keeps the hammer away from the firing pin unless thrown forward by mainspring pressure in firing.

There have been reports of a 1911's going off when dropped because there is no firing pin safety, except on the Colts and Paras, and the firing pin can go forward and hit the primer. The odds are remote to the point that I wouldn't worry about it and probably most of the stories are hearsay.

If it were a "problem" there would be a lot of news about it because there are so many 1911's in use and manufacurers would change the design. John Browning knew what he was doing when he designed his stuff.

Both are safe for carry and as long as you keep your finger off the trigger, you'll be fine. Get some training and practice time behind the gun and you'll get more comfortable with them. You have to respect the gun, but you can't be afraid of it, it's your friend. Get both and it will save you the decision problems. Regards. Check out www.sigforum.com and www.1911forum.com

[This message has been edited by KOG (edited August 09, 2000).]
 
I carry a 220 as primary.The change from double to single is no problem at all.Practice by useing the decocker after every round.After shooting a couple of boxes double action you shoud be in good shape.After that do one mag every time you practice to keep in condition.

------------------
Bob--- Age and deceit will overcome youth and speed.
I'm old and deceitful.
 
Yes Sir; Both weapons are equally safe, provided they are in good mechanical condition and proper gun safety rules
are followed. I prefer the Sig P220;
for it's light weight, dependability,
quality, and out of the box accuracy.
The transition from double action first
shot's, to single action follow up shot's
is not a problem for me. :D The Kimber may
offer tighter groups on paper; but when
where CCW comes into play, I prefer the
220 to anything else. :eek:

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
Regarding ND of a 220 when dropped on hammer: the way the guns used to be built, if the hammer was lowered using the thumb and not the decocker, there was no safety intercept, which meant that the hammer could be impacted and cause the gun to fire. However, that changed a few years back (I think perhaps as many as ten) and it's no longer an issue. The manual still says to always use the decocker though.

At least that's my understanding (not a SIG expert), someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
traitorjack....I have both guns in question here. Given the fact that both are in sound working condition, buy and carry the one you like best. Personally I would opt for the Kimber. I have trained enough that fliciking of the thumb safty is second nature. Both guns are just as safe as the shooter is. The Kimber should only be carried in condition one. Shoot Safe....CO

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"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them." From the movie, " The Shootist"
 
Gentlemen! Many thanks for all your kind replies.

J. Parker: You're absolutely right, of course; it really does come down to a comfort level/safety issue. In fact, when I showed your reply to my brother, he grinned and said, "That's what I've been trying to tell you!" He carries a Security Six but is now shopping for a 1911. Rather, I should have just asked about the particulars of carrying a P220 in C2.

More thanks to Andabeer, KOG and Zach for the information regarding the Sig hammer, etc. I feel better knowing as much about the mechanical aspects of a weapon's operation as possible, the lack of which, I'm sure, has everything to do with my discomfort with a cocked and locked 1911. On that note, I'm seeing about going back to spend some more range time with the Kimber.

Perhaps the best course of action is just to get both of them. :-)

Again, thanks to all for sharing your experience. TFL has been an invaluable resource for me, a relative newcomer to handguns.
 
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