As I need a pistol that will at times get wet I was looking at the Kimber Compact stainless. As I was looking thur the catalog I noticed on their chart that all of the 4" and 3.2" stainless models have a carbon steel barrels even thought the gun is called a stainless model. A call to the factory confirmed that only the full match models have stainless barrels. The barrels on the compact and ultra compact models are more likely to rust as they do not even have the protection of blueing. Also noticed that the catalog no longer mentions their "great" MIM parts. Note that when it has to work, like on any aircraft, you will only find forgings and never any MIM parts. I know there is some Kimber fanatic on this site who states MIM is perfectly fine and he has 20,000 rounds with no breakage. To him I say "any day now any day". They may be fine for target work but when a life is on the line why gamble on the possibility of breakage due to porocity?
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Kimber stainless not all stainless
- Thread starter skeeter
- Start date
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
Good point.
MIM is fine for some things... Like models for examples. Anything thats NON CRITICAL could be made MIM...
Paper weights... Decorative Art... Gift Shop Trinkets.
When it comes to guns - its all critical, baby!
Demand it.
If you got MIM parts - swapp'm out. I think its a poor technic for manufacturing. Especially parts for Firearms.
I like parts CNC milled out of a Forged billet. Call me silly.
MIM is fine for some things... Like models for examples. Anything thats NON CRITICAL could be made MIM...
Paper weights... Decorative Art... Gift Shop Trinkets.
When it comes to guns - its all critical, baby!
Demand it.
If you got MIM parts - swapp'm out. I think its a poor technic for manufacturing. Especially parts for Firearms.
I like parts CNC milled out of a Forged billet. Call me silly.
I've got a great idea! Why don't we start a MIM bashers forum. That way those who want to could post on the subject until the cows come home. Those who don't care won't have to wade through it. Then, maybe those people won't bash MIM in every Kimber thread they come across...
Walt Welch
New member
Skeeter; talk to your wife; she will tell you that the blades on the knives in your 'solid sterling' flatware are stainless steel!
I recommend the use of Sentry Products Tuf-Cloth. These come in regular, and Marine (for salty climes). You just wipe the stuff on with the cloth, and it dries to a non tacky finish in a few seconds. The Marine version leaves a slight haze, but this can be polished off with a dry cloth if it bothers you. These products are thin film corrosion inhibitors, and stick to the metal like glue. You need soap and water or a solvent to remove them, even though the coating is invisible. These cloths are widely used in the knife community, but have yet to catch on with the gun community.
There are places where the thin film corrosion inhibitors should not be used. Since they provide only minimal lubrication, their use on the outside of bbls. and slide/receiver rails is inappropriate. A good PTFE/oil product, or a PTFE or MoS2 grease is appropriate in these places.
Get Tuf-Cloths at our sister forum, www.bladeforums.com
Or get them cheaper, $6.21 for the reg, $6.85 for the Marine, at www.discountknives.com
They will last for about 40 to 50 applications, then can be restored by adding mineral spirits, so you basically have a lifetime of rust inhibition for a small investment.
Hope this helps, Walt
I recommend the use of Sentry Products Tuf-Cloth. These come in regular, and Marine (for salty climes). You just wipe the stuff on with the cloth, and it dries to a non tacky finish in a few seconds. The Marine version leaves a slight haze, but this can be polished off with a dry cloth if it bothers you. These products are thin film corrosion inhibitors, and stick to the metal like glue. You need soap and water or a solvent to remove them, even though the coating is invisible. These cloths are widely used in the knife community, but have yet to catch on with the gun community.
There are places where the thin film corrosion inhibitors should not be used. Since they provide only minimal lubrication, their use on the outside of bbls. and slide/receiver rails is inappropriate. A good PTFE/oil product, or a PTFE or MoS2 grease is appropriate in these places.
Get Tuf-Cloths at our sister forum, www.bladeforums.com
Or get them cheaper, $6.21 for the reg, $6.85 for the Marine, at www.discountknives.com
They will last for about 40 to 50 applications, then can be restored by adding mineral spirits, so you basically have a lifetime of rust inhibition for a small investment.
Hope this helps, Walt
Wilson uses MIM parts in some of their pistols as well. However, we've been told that these MIM parts are better (since they're Wilsons they must be).
Wilson also uses frames and slides from the same source that Kimber does. Of course, we're told that these are the "same but different" so there you go.
Oh, and all of you with old Colt revolvers with sintered parts, or those of you who own investment casted Rugers(similar manufacturing techniques), you'd better get rid of those babies yesterday. They may have worked for years but those in the know (and something to sell) tell us that they're unreliable.
Wilson also uses frames and slides from the same source that Kimber does. Of course, we're told that these are the "same but different" so there you go.
Oh, and all of you with old Colt revolvers with sintered parts, or those of you who own investment casted Rugers(similar manufacturing techniques), you'd better get rid of those babies yesterday. They may have worked for years but those in the know (and something to sell) tell us that they're unreliable.
I guess I better lay off any educated opinions on MIM parts because Rikimberwriter sounds like he is on the verge of getting nasty and really to me the whole idea behind TFL is a good spirted friendship with people sharing a common passion.When I fault MIM parts it is in the honest belief that people should know about all possible concerns and then decide for themselves, after all we are not talking about washing machines but rather an item that needs to work every time. I guess my point is simply that forgings are stronger and a defensive product should be as strong as possible. The only parts that I have experienced a breakage with were castings such as my extractor on a Mini-14 (the rifle was totally out of action with the shell stuck in the chamber). Again no manufacturer of any type of aircraft uses MIM parts.
Direct from the Peanut Gallery
P.S.- Jim.I do leave a firearm for extended times on a boat and in a sea side house. As I may not be there for a year or two I do not want to have to worry about rust.Thank you for your advise I will try the product.
Direct from the Peanut Gallery
P.S.- Jim.I do leave a firearm for extended times on a boat and in a sea side house. As I may not be there for a year or two I do not want to have to worry about rust.Thank you for your advise I will try the product.
I guess I better lay off any educated opinions on MIM parts because Rikimberwriter sounds like he is on the verge of getting nasty and really to me the whole idea behind TFL is a good spirted friendship with people sharing a common passion.When I fault MIM parts it is in the honest belief that people should know about all possible concerns and then decide for themselves, after all we are not talking about washing machines but rather an item that needs to work every time. I guess my point is simply that forgings are stronger and a defensive product should be as strong as possible. The only parts that I have experienced a breakage with were castings such as my extractor on a Mini-14 (the rifle was totally out of action with the shell stuck in the chamber). Again no manufacturer of any type of aircraft uses MIM parts.
Direct from the Peanut Gallery
P.S.- Jim.I do leave a firearm for extended times on a boat and in a sea side house. As I may not be there for a year or two I do not want to have to worry about rust.Thank you for your advise I will try the product.
Direct from the Peanut Gallery
P.S.- Jim.I do leave a firearm for extended times on a boat and in a sea side house. As I may not be there for a year or two I do not want to have to worry about rust.Thank you for your advise I will try the product.
sharpsrifle
New member
Skeeter
You have made two references to aircraft manufacture.
Do you have any background in aviation design / manufacture / maintenance?
Just curious.
------------------
Regards, Sharps.
[This message has been edited by sharpsrifle (edited March 04, 2000).]
You have made two references to aircraft manufacture.
Do you have any background in aviation design / manufacture / maintenance?
Just curious.
------------------
Regards, Sharps.
[This message has been edited by sharpsrifle (edited March 04, 2000).]
Frankly, Skeeter and George one reason I have for not believing in the 20,000 round life for MIM is practices with me for IDPA. The gentlemen has 60,000+ through his Kimber Custom. I asked him about replacing parts and the only thing he mentioned was a pin or two, which he considered standard.
Sharpesrifle,
I have a degree in mechanical engineering and holder of Grumman's Clive Hartt award.
Rikimberwriter,
Don't doubt that MIM fitted guns can go 20,000 or 50,000 rounds without breakage it is just very rare and unlikely..Accepting a difference of opinion does not torque me at all. I do get slightly torqued by mean spirited people, a quality that you have NOT shown. We just have a difference of opinion that is all though one of us is right. Wishing you zero jams.
I have a degree in mechanical engineering and holder of Grumman's Clive Hartt award.
Rikimberwriter,
Don't doubt that MIM fitted guns can go 20,000 or 50,000 rounds without breakage it is just very rare and unlikely..Accepting a difference of opinion does not torque me at all. I do get slightly torqued by mean spirited people, a quality that you have NOT shown. We just have a difference of opinion that is all though one of us is right. Wishing you zero jams.
WeeGee,
What is similar about Rugers lost wax casting process and MIM parts is that a mold is used in both cases. Also porocity is an issue with both processes where as it is not with forgings. You can not manipulate grain structure with castings, to get more strength, as well as with forgings.
What is similar about Rugers lost wax casting process and MIM parts is that a mold is used in both cases. Also porocity is an issue with both processes where as it is not with forgings. You can not manipulate grain structure with castings, to get more strength, as well as with forgings.
Big George
New member
Lets see, Grumman...They made airplanes by hammering out the world's strongest planes on an anvil in Bethpage, Long Island....No MIM parts? I doubt it, but MIM technology as moved forward quite a bit in recent years.
As time goes on we will see quite a few Kimbers with 10s of thousands of rounds on their MIM parts...Could be they are on to something? I wonder what the MTBF is on Kimbers internal parts?
I have a "low time" Kimber with only 4800 rounds so I'll just have to wait for my first MIM failure!
Semper Fi!
As time goes on we will see quite a few Kimbers with 10s of thousands of rounds on their MIM parts...Could be they are on to something? I wonder what the MTBF is on Kimbers internal parts?
I have a "low time" Kimber with only 4800 rounds so I'll just have to wait for my first MIM failure!
Semper Fi!