Kimber apologizes, kind of.

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Ankeny

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I sent my lemon Kimber back to my dealer and asked for my money back. The dealer refused to refund my money but he told Kimber to fix the pistol or he would drop the line and no longer be a Master Dealer. Well, a Kimber representative called me today.

Our conversation was a joke until I told the guy I had contacted a couple of the better gunsmiths in the country and told him what I had learned. The Kimber representative gave me a run around, then finally admitted that the Gold Match can experience failures to feed and they know some pistols have chambers that are too tight. He also admitted the slide stop problem is well known. Furthermore, he admitted that on the rare pistol the - - and + + tolerances might not “line up” and you can have some severe slide lock problems. At least they admitted they made a damn lemon and I was the unlucky sap that got it. Just like my dealer, Kimber refused to refund any or part of my money or pay for my shipping the first time around. He did offer to have the boys at the custom shop throw an extra magazine in the box. After all these hassles and $35.00 bucks shipping, one of Kimber’s crappy magazines as an apology and reimbursement just doesn’t trip my trigger. He also told me to just avoid ammo that won’t feed. I quote the guy, “Just because the pistol won’t feed Remington ball ammo is no reason to expect a refund or exchange”. It is obvious that they will not take the time required to do some handwork. He told me he will have the guys in the custom shop be sure it will shoot what ever they have on hand without failure by shooting "...30 to 40 rounds."

The guy also told me my dealer can’t ship the gun in or it would void the warranty. Yikes, I have to get the pistol back from the dealer (100 miles away) and send it in myself since the warranty extends to the consumer and the dealer can not be involved. Time for round two. At the conclusion of round two, Kimber decided to send for a “call tag” and have UPS pick the pistol up from my dealer.

From all of my conversations with Kimber and gunsmiths who have fixed them I have learned a couple of things. First, Kimber’s carry guns are probably fantastic with very few bad ones out there. However, they tried to build a Wilson or Baer equivalent in the Gold Match and just didn’t get the job done. Want a carry gun? Get a Kimber and you will be OK. Want a target gun? Get a Baer, Brown, Wilson, Rock River, anything but Kimber.

So what next? Well, I am sending the pistol back to Kimber so I can get the free magazine. When I get the pistol back I think I’ll send it to Brian, I know he can fix it and he won’t jerk me around.
 
Ankeny,

I am sorry for your grief! I researched the literature and police offiers and my conclusion was that Kimber was the best 1911 45. Most police officers said go with the Glock--the 30 was my second choice.

At this time I only have about 300 rounds in my Kimber Pro-Carry and Ultra Elite. Other than one or two jams, they have been excellent. However, another reason I chose Kimbers was the perception that they stood behind their guns. I am extremely disappointed with the results you have had with their cusomer service.

Thank you for sharing your story. I will think very hard before I choose another Kimber.

Vee
 
I feel badly, because a friend of mine impulsively (that's his MO) ran out and bought a Gold Match, after I told them Kimbers were good based on word of mouth (before they grew so much). I was going to do some research here before he bought, but didn't get the chance. I would have steered him elsewhere. Maybe some of these problems are the result of growing pains, but that's small consolation to the victims.

I'm not sure he's had problems, and I'm afraid to ask. It's a damn shame really...they should have their act together by now. If I was you, I'd be ballistic. I'd never take the chance on buying a Gold Match unless I could get a good 1911 gunsmith to approve it first. maybe the same with their carry guns. I spoke to the Rock River brothers about this... they had a Kimber that someone sent in for work. The breechface was off center! He had to add to the side of the barrel, and subtract from the other side, to try and fix it. With the labor, the owner could have easily bought a Rock River and avoided a big migraine.

When you can get a Rock River (or some others mentioned here, like Brian Bilby)) for a few hundred $$ more, why take the chance? I hate getting screwed, and passing the screwing on by selling the gun.

http://www.rockriverarms.com]www.rockriverarms.com

This is why people buy Glocks, HK's etc. Life's too short.




[This message has been edited by Covert Mission (edited November 23, 1999).]
 
I know you've had a bad experience with yours, but I disagree with your conclusion. I have a Gold Match and one of my best friends also has one and neither of us has had any jams through a couple thousand rounds apiece. There are obviously lemons out there, but I think 99% of the people who have bought Gold Matches are happy with them. Hell,I CARRY mine, I am so happy with it.
 
My first Kimber (compact custom) was a decent
gun - still don't care for McCormick sites or mags so I sent it to Novak's for Lo mount bar dots and reliability pkg, then spent the $ for wilson mags. The 2nd Kimber (stainless compact) got the same treatment and works fine. The problem on the 2nd gun was the disconnect, these guys cannot put a decent profile on the disconnect to save their lives. The slide lock also was poor. Went through the proper channels to try and resolve these things and dealt with just about the same BS described on these forums - poor service. These things are not an aberation, it is happening often. I will not, nor will I advise anyone else to, buy another Kimber. Mine are good now that Novak's has dealt with'em but hey, I spent an additional $300 apiece to get'em that way. I had great hopes for Kimber, NC machinery good QC - heck , wave of the future. But as Burns once wrote
"the best laid plans o' mice an' men gang aft agley"
 
Well you can bet your patooty there will be no kimber purchases here. Ive never heard so many negative responses for any gun. When you spend the kind of money kimber asks you would think you are getting a reliable piece. Ive never heard things like this from as many Sig,HK,glock, Browning,para, owners

Oops..my bad !

I have heard the same things about Hi-Point

Over the last 2 months i have become Anti-Kimber. Its pretty simple. When regular guys like myself and most of the people here shell out hard earned dollars for a top quality gun we expect little issues. From what i've seen Kimber has many issues. I can only speak for myself. but i dont want that kind of caos in my firearm experiences.

------------------
TIM : )
 
From your post:

"He also told me to just avoid ammo that won’t feed. I quote the guy, “Just because the pistol won’t feed Remington ball ammo is no reason to expect a refund or exchange”.

I think this guy showed you extreme disrespect. I would go ballistic after
hearing such BS. It's your business, but
I would go as far as necessary to get rid
of this piece of junk they sold. They must
refund for the pistol that is so bad that
will not feed plain Remington FMJ, and pay
all corresponding charges. If you have time,
write a letter to Kimber's president or CEO
and fax it every day until their kidneys
will not handle it any more. It will work.
 
In my experience, the best Kimbers are the cheap ones. The higher end ones seem the be the most accident prone. This crap, and that is what it is, about the ammo being the fault is just an excuse. Rem-UMC ammo ain't the best, but a production gun should feed it out of the box. And that's what a Kimber is. A production gun, not a hand fit custom. Hell, the guy even admitted that their slide stops suck, fitting sometimes sucks and other problems. That would be excusable on a $400 quickie production gun, but a $900 Gold Match. Don't they test fire the guns before they leave the factory to find out about the chambers. They could ream them no problem. Headspace, not chamber tightness is what is important to accuracy. And then they offer you a junk mag, which costs them $5 max, as a settlement. I don't have the money or resources that Kimber has, but if a customer of mine gets one of my guns and after the first 50 rounds it has a problem, I fix it, return it within a week and pay all costs. Period. Only exceptions, if you tinkered with the gun or blew it up with a bad reload. Customer satisfaction is #1, and it is with those who care about their customers and thier reputation.

And I must say thatI'm appaled at how some people just say "Well I ONLY had one or two jams every couple of hundred rounds". See how you feel if that jam pops up in a gunfight. Unless you're feeding some exotic hollowpoint the damn things should go bang every time, especially with hardball.

I get a little sore on this whole Kimber issue as I see people constantly complaining about how their $500 Colt, Springfield or whatever jammed once or twice out of the box, then say the same thing about a Kimber and it's OK. It's not OK with any of them, but a supposed high end gun like the Kimber should be held to a higher standard, as they promote that and charge for it.

------------------
Brian Bilby
Advanced Combat Pistols
www.45acp.com
 
Oris is 100% correct!

Kimber can jam that free malfunctioning magazine they are going to give you in their tailpipe. What a JOKE. Free magazine in exchange for keeping you from getting a $1000.00 refund. "Step" on that Kimber "rep" like the Ant that he is and go over his head without even blinking. Get names and addresses + e-mail addresses , fax numbers and get medieval on these charlatans. Settle for nothing less than what you demand.

On a side note buy a Dremel tool. It is fantastic for polishing the breech face , barrel , throating , reaming , ramp.

Kimbers customer service = JOKE
 
I agree with SHORTFUSE all the way... When I get in a situation like that, you need to say "thank you for your time, but what is the name and number of your manager" and KEEP using that til you reach someon that will do something about it!
As "The Rock" would have told 'em...
"You know what you can do with that extra magazine... You can take it, look at it... spit on it... shine that son bitch up... turn it sideways, and stick it up... YOUR CANDY A$$!!"
Of course that is just my opinion, I could be wrong...
 
Wow, I wish I had read these posts before I bought my Kimber ! I just hope my custom classic doesn't have as many problems as the lemons previous posters have been stuck with.

i emailed Kimber writing them a note about this forum and the number of threads regarding dissatisfaction with their product. I copied this entire thread and attached it with the email. I think everyone here should do the same, and at the end say " Well, looks like the next one is a Springfield/Paraordnance ! Thanks for nothing.. "
 
Kimber's excuse about the Remington ammo reminds me of the service manager at the auto dealership where my wife tried to get her car repaired under warranty. He told her that the engine problem was caused by bad gasoline, that there was nothing he could do, and that she should try a different brand of gas. However, his excuse was a little thin--94% of the gasoline sold in my town comes from the same refinery! We got her car fixed elsewhere, by someone less interested in excuses and more interested in service. Unfortunately, it sounds like the same remedy applies for some Kimbers.
 
Ankeny:

There are, I noticed, basically two types of thoughts on Kimber. There are those who were lucky enough to get good guns and they, by and large, are extremely satisfied with their purchases.

But, I believe that this is not a true measure of how good the company is. Heck, even Colt makes a good gun now and then.

The true measure of the company is how it deals with the second group of people - the ones who got lemons. And here Kimber fails in my opinion.

My Kimber Pro Carry was a lemon. It had the following problems:

1. The now famous slide stop problem.
2. Failure to feed a variety of JHP ammo.
3. Incorrectly adjusted fixed sight.
4. Throwing brass at my face.
5. Inability to release the slide by manual retraction of the slide (had to drop the slide stop) after loading a fresh loaded magazine.

You know that the first response from an otherwise helpful customer rep was? "Our guns don't experience this kind of slide stop problems." Oh, really? Gee, that's funny. From what I heard your guns are the only ones with this problem in a large scale!

To my surprise, Kimber only took two weeks to "fix" and return the gun. I was happy. I was told that the following actions were done:

1. Openend the breech face.
2. Adjusted the extractor.
3. Replaced the slide stop.

So, after a thorough cleaning, I took the gun shooting. The first shot fires, but the ejected brass hits my forehead (actually got stuck between my forehead and my shooting glasses)! And guess what? The slide does NOT lock back after the last shot! I ditched the factory mag and tried Wilson mags, and that particular problem went away.

But I still had the rest of the problems. So much for Kimber factory/customer service.

I wasn't going to send the gun the second time and go through all the jazz.

I got a Springfield Loaded in stainless steel. So far, it's been 100% with all FMJ and JHP I tried. I am sure that Springfield makes lemons as well, but I also heard repeatedly from others that Springfield takes care of its customers (even replaces guns if they continue to malfunction). Besides the customer service is for life! With Kimber, what little warranty service you get is only for a year and then you are on your own.

Sure, Kimbers are slicker than Springfields, but I'd rather have a gun that shoots reliably 3" at 25 yards than unreliably 1" at 25 yards.

My two bits.

Skorzeny


------------------
For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu
 
Skorzeny, about 99% of the people who buy Kimbers are "lucky ones" who get good pistols. The 1% that gets lemons is simply more vocal. I talk to a lot of dealers in this area both at shops and hanging out at local gun shows (which are the biggest in the state) and since this whole Kimber business started I have made a point to ask Kimber Master Dealers who I know about the return rate. These guys know me and know I already have a few Kimbers and am not in the market to buy any more at this point, so they aren't trying to make a sale, and they all tell me they have a very very small return rate. Something on the order of 1 per 100 guns sold. That, combined with my personal experiences and those of my friends and acquaintances that own and shoot Kimbers have convinced me that the lemon-owners are in a very small minority. I know that doesn't make you feel any better about the fact YOU got stuck with a lemon or about your experiences with customer service, but I didn't want people reading this to hear your and Arkeny's experience and get the wrong idea about Kimber.
 
RikWriter,

As long as Kimber (or ANY OTHER COMPANY) refuses to SATISFY the customer, Kimber
is BAD, no exceptions, period. It's not about Kimber pistols, it's about principle.
Kimber is obviously not helping customer
at his time, so, they deserve good beating.
The longer they resist, the worst publicity
they gonna get, this is not personal, this is
strictly business.
 
This talk makes me want to go hug my Colts. Mmmmm -- they're warm and fuzzy! ;)

------------------
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel!
 
Oris put it perfect.....you put out a bad piece and you know it is a bad piece, don't screw with the customer. Take it back, fix it right the first time and if you can't get it right, you replace it, end of story.

I can't believe the crap that Ankeny went through...I think he handled himself well..almost too well. I would have went ballistic on that joker on the phone. $1000 bucks on something that won't even feed??? Hello? Don't use this ammo...hogwash

I was considering a Kimber Custom Classic a few months ago...wonder where I would be today if I had bought it? Hopefully not posting here on what a piece of crap I tossed my money away on.

Not saying all Kimbers are junk. In fact all the people that have bought them in my gunshop have raved about them. I just want to make sure that if I need help, I'm going to get it without being jerked around like this guy was. Kimber should pick up the shipping also.
 
re:
"Skorzeny, about 99% of the people who buy Kimbers are "lucky ones" who get good pistols. The 1% that gets lemons..."

That's small consolation to the 1%, if it is that low a percentage. And if it is that low, and Kimber is selling so many guns and presumably making lots of money, then doing right by the 1% shouldn't cost them that much.

We've already heard a number of people here who won't buy or recommend Kimber until they hear the situation's improved. It's harder to rebuild a good reputation than to maintain one. They should be smarter, imo.
 
"Skorzeny, about 99% of the people who buy Kimbers are "lucky ones" who get good pistols. The 1% that gets lemons..."


If kimber sells 10,000 pistols per/month thats 100 pissed off people a month. thats 1,200 pissed off people a year. If those 1,200 people make enough noise Kimber wont be selling 10,000 a month for long.

These big companies need to understand you cant step on the little guy. Cause there's alot of little guys with big mouths.

note: these are not actual statistics. Just an example.

------------------
TIM : )
 
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