Keltec P11 experiences
- Thread starter SHORTFUSE
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Best concealed carry gun I own. Very concealable, quite light, and 10 + 1 of full-bore, romp'em stomp'em +P 9mm.
Not the slickest. Not the prettiest. Not the most accurate. But the little gun always goes bang, and has a lot of grit. Also, in the unlikely event of a hard primer or a light strike, it has second-strike capability, before you "Slap/Rack/Bang."
"Match Grade Barrel"??!!? Are you mad? This thing has a DAO trigger pull of about 11 lbs! A guy on the Kel-Tec Owners Group page has a way of getting this down (Kel Tec now sells an 8-lb spring), but... c'mon!
The pull is long, hard, and... Clunky? Clacky? But it isconsistant, and fairly smooth. After getting used to it, you can do some decent work with it.
The price is right, and the company is pretty good about standing behind their product, given the increased demand. Belt clip is very useful; NOT just a gimmick.
("Match Barrel"?!)
Ways to slick yours up can be found at: www.ktog.org .
One neat thing Kel Tec offers is a set of Trijicon night sights installed on your slide for 90 bucks, and while it's at the factory, they'll polish your feed ramp for free!
One caveat: the .40 conversion that they're selling for their 9's seems to be plagued with little problems. Hopefully these will be worked out, but until then, the 9 is pretty neat for a pocket pistol.
Good magazines, too!
[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited August 12, 1999).]
Not the slickest. Not the prettiest. Not the most accurate. But the little gun always goes bang, and has a lot of grit. Also, in the unlikely event of a hard primer or a light strike, it has second-strike capability, before you "Slap/Rack/Bang."
"Match Grade Barrel"??!!? Are you mad? This thing has a DAO trigger pull of about 11 lbs! A guy on the Kel-Tec Owners Group page has a way of getting this down (Kel Tec now sells an 8-lb spring), but... c'mon!
The pull is long, hard, and... Clunky? Clacky? But it isconsistant, and fairly smooth. After getting used to it, you can do some decent work with it.
The price is right, and the company is pretty good about standing behind their product, given the increased demand. Belt clip is very useful; NOT just a gimmick.
("Match Barrel"?!)
Ways to slick yours up can be found at: www.ktog.org .
One neat thing Kel Tec offers is a set of Trijicon night sights installed on your slide for 90 bucks, and while it's at the factory, they'll polish your feed ramp for free!
One caveat: the .40 conversion that they're selling for their 9's seems to be plagued with little problems. Hopefully these will be worked out, but until then, the 9 is pretty neat for a pocket pistol.
Good magazines, too!
[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited August 12, 1999).]
My roommate has a P11, and to be frank, there are better guns out there. For the $250 or so he paid for it, it's ok but could be a lot better.
PROs: Price, 10rd mag, small size
CONs: More recoil, uncomfortable grip, terribly heavy DOA trigger pull, not really accurate (in part to triger - had problems hitting a can at 15ft), also had some extraction problems with factory ammo last time we went to shoot.
I have not heard of any sort of match grade barrels that are available for this gun. If you are wondering about customizations to this gun, peruse the Keltec Owners Group http://www.ktog.org This gun would be perfect for personal defense, but I am a little sketchy after those extraction failures. IMHO I would save the money and get a glock if you like the polymer.
[This message has been edited by mic007tfp (edited August 12, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by mic007tfp (edited August 12, 1999).]
PROs: Price, 10rd mag, small size
CONs: More recoil, uncomfortable grip, terribly heavy DOA trigger pull, not really accurate (in part to triger - had problems hitting a can at 15ft), also had some extraction problems with factory ammo last time we went to shoot.
I have not heard of any sort of match grade barrels that are available for this gun. If you are wondering about customizations to this gun, peruse the Keltec Owners Group http://www.ktog.org This gun would be perfect for personal defense, but I am a little sketchy after those extraction failures. IMHO I would save the money and get a glock if you like the polymer.
[This message has been edited by mic007tfp (edited August 12, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by mic007tfp (edited August 12, 1999).]
Walt Sherrill
New member
I've had a Kel-Tec P-11 for about a year and a half.
Haven't noticed that recoil is particularly bad -- I have several autos to compare it to. (My Beretta Tomcat was much more unpleaseant to shoot.)
The newest models are much improved over what was coming out of the factory a couple of years ago.
Mine has been totally reliable and surprisingly accurate. I don't think you'll find a better NEW 9mm for the money; you can find used guns for a better price, but none will be as easily carried or concealed.
As another suggested, check out the KTOG website. (This is not affiliated with Kel-Tec.)
Haven't noticed that recoil is particularly bad -- I have several autos to compare it to. (My Beretta Tomcat was much more unpleaseant to shoot.)
The newest models are much improved over what was coming out of the factory a couple of years ago.
Mine has been totally reliable and surprisingly accurate. I don't think you'll find a better NEW 9mm for the money; you can find used guns for a better price, but none will be as easily carried or concealed.
As another suggested, check out the KTOG website. (This is not affiliated with Kel-Tec.)
I have over 3000K rounds (MANY of them +Ps) through mine with no malfunctions or breakage and no dectectable wear. Trigger pull of all KTs made in the last few years is 8.5lbs.,lighter than most revolvers but maybe a little longer. Center mass hits are no prob out to 20yds. after that you`ll need to concentrate some. Recoil is brisk with +Ps but very controllable with practice. I carry mine everyday IWB with the belt clip (which has to be tried to be believed) and I trust it 100%. It`s an inexpensive,ugly, cheesy looking/feeling little gun but I wouldn`t trade it for anything. 
Marcus
MarcusRe: Ugly, cheesy, cheap.
The other day I noticed that I finally got some rust on the slide from extensive carry in the summertime. "Good," I said to my paternal shooting partner.
"Why?" inquired he.
"Because now I can really neglect it without a thought. I was waiting for its first scratch or drop test, but this works fine." I paid well under $200 for it used (in the box, looked new), and it's nice to own a pistol that I can neglect and not worry about. Only thing better would be if it was stainless upper, but that would probably jack up the price a lot.
The other day I noticed that I finally got some rust on the slide from extensive carry in the summertime. "Good," I said to my paternal shooting partner.
"Why?" inquired he.
"Because now I can really neglect it without a thought. I was waiting for its first scratch or drop test, but this works fine." I paid well under $200 for it used (in the box, looked new), and it's nice to own a pistol that I can neglect and not worry about. Only thing better would be if it was stainless upper, but that would probably jack up the price a lot.
That's great that we are getting
some positive reviews of the P11!
Recoil not that bad???? One thing
that is of great concern is "no
drop safety"! The hammer rests on
the firing pin which rests on the
primer! Even Keltec admits drop
it from 6 feet on its muzzle and
Kaboom!
------------------
"No Tailgating!"
some positive reviews of the P11!
Recoil not that bad???? One thing
that is of great concern is "no
drop safety"! The hammer rests on
the firing pin which rests on the
primer! Even Keltec admits drop
it from 6 feet on its muzzle and
Kaboom!
------------------
"No Tailgating!"
My experience with the P11 has not been so rosy as the others. I really liked the pistol for it's size and weight. I thought I had the perfect CCW gun. I bought NIB and headed for the range, on the 51st round the trigger broke, wouldn't return after firing. I sent it back to KELTEC and they replaced the trigger group. Back to the range, 70 rounds through it before the extractor broke. I sent it back to KELTEC and asked for a new gun, they said no, but that they could replace everything except the frame. I said OK. Since I got it back I have put about 150 rounds through it with no further problems. I have carried it a couple of times since when I need real concealability, but when I do I am really nervous about having to use it. I think the P11s are a great gun for the price if you get one that works. I didn't.
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JHG
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JHG
ninemil ,
That's my worst fear come true! I
would hate to have to really pull
the P11 and something breaks & I
get killed by the BG! Meanwhile
all along carrying the P11 for years
till I actually need it , only for
it to fail & I get wasted. Hmmmmmm.
------------------
"No Tailgating!"
That's my worst fear come true! I
would hate to have to really pull
the P11 and something breaks & I
get killed by the BG! Meanwhile
all along carrying the P11 for years
till I actually need it , only for
it to fail & I get wasted. Hmmmmmm.
------------------
"No Tailgating!"
Clint Tickler
New member
Just got a P11 and have only fired one box of ammo but it shot well for what it is and recoil was no biggie. I have shot the P40 and that is a bit of a jolt. I see some of you state that you use Plus P ammo in yours.
Is that ok? The book seems to discourage it as well as the salesman that sold it to me.
I'd rather if it could take it. What's the best IWB holster for this gun? Thanks. Clint
Is that ok? The book seems to discourage it as well as the salesman that sold it to me.
I'd rather if it could take it. What's the best IWB holster for this gun? Thanks. Clint
First off: visit www.ktog.org for all your Kel-Tec needs. It's THE biggest resource online for KT information.
Regarding Pus-P ammo: It will take it, just not a regular diet of it. I have some +p+ LEO surplus stuff that I fire sometimes...digests it no problem.
As for recoil...out of the 9, it's no biggie. the 40 is a lot snappier, and as of yesterday I now know what the .357 SIG feels like: pain.
Verdict: LOVE my Kel-Tecs, after a couple simple "fluff & buffs." wouldn't carry anything else for now. usually carry the 9 these days, but carried the 40 daily for a long time.
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-stark-
http://www.23x.com/stark/guns
Regarding Pus-P ammo: It will take it, just not a regular diet of it. I have some +p+ LEO surplus stuff that I fire sometimes...digests it no problem.
As for recoil...out of the 9, it's no biggie. the 40 is a lot snappier, and as of yesterday I now know what the .357 SIG feels like: pain.
Verdict: LOVE my Kel-Tecs, after a couple simple "fluff & buffs." wouldn't carry anything else for now. usually carry the 9 these days, but carried the 40 daily for a long time.
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-stark-
http://www.23x.com/stark/guns
There is a better small 9mm with the same ammo amount. the taurus p111. this gun has a much better trigger pull. better recoil controlabitity, more accurate, and does not fall apart. Most kel-tec user`s will tell you, you have to fluff and buff thier gun not the taurus, Nickster!
Completely disagree about the Taurus. Trigger pull was sloppy, gritty and *unchangeable* in the PT-111 I handled. I've heard nothing good about their reliability, parts and pieces break with frequency. Kel-Tecs break sometimes too, but Kel-Tec will gladly replace anything that breaks in 3 weeks or less, no matter what you've done to the gun.
Besides, if I wanted a Kel-Tec knockoff, I'd just buy a Kel-Tec.
Oh wait...I did. Twice.
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-stark-
http://www.23x.com/stark/guns
Besides, if I wanted a Kel-Tec knockoff, I'd just buy a Kel-Tec.
Oh wait...I did. Twice.
------------------
-stark-
http://www.23x.com/stark/guns
Walt Sherrill
New member
>"Recoil not that bad????"
Yes. Not bad at all. I've fired several .32s that are a lot worse. Try a Seecamp, sometime -- it will beat you up. My Tomcat, while better than a Seecamp, still could be unpleasant if you were shooting a lot. Far more unpleasant than the P-11, and more expensive to buy and shoot, to boot.
>"One thing that is of great concern is "no drop safety"! The hammer rests on the firing pin which rests on the primer! Even Keltec admits drop it from 6 feet on its muzzle and
Kaboom!"
I don't think Kel-Tec admits any such thing. They just don't advocate that you drop a loaded weapon -- from any height.
The only time I've heard about this sort of thing happening was in a gun magazine; it was a comment by a writer who spoke of a "friend" who had the problem. When several Kel-Tec gun owners called him and pressed him for the specifics, he could NOT provide details. Anecdotal stories can generally be ignored.
Several owners on the KTOG website have tried , under safe conditions, to force an accidental discharge and have been unable to do so. (One gunsmith even went so far as to put a primed, empty cartridge in the gun, and them slammed it with a 2x4 while holding the gun in a padded vise. He could not make it discharge.)
I don't think accidental discharge is a real problem with this gun -- because of the basic design. The hammer is VERY light and must be moved a relatively long distance under spring loading to ignite the primer. Were the hammer heavier it might be a problem -- but it is, in fact, very light. (That's the design reason for the heavy trigger spring and long trigger pull!)
Getting used to double-action only is not easy, but if you install a trigger shoe (instructions on WWW.KTOG.ORG,), a trigger stop, and make a few other modifications (all detailed on the site), you'll find you've got a great, accurate, safe and reliable gun.
I gave some thought to getting a Kel-Tec .40 cal or getting the upgrade slide and barrel (which can be made into a .357 Sig cal weapon) but decided THAT would have had a very harsh recoil. I am not a masochist.
[This message has been edited by Walt Sherrill (edited August 14, 1999).]
Yes. Not bad at all. I've fired several .32s that are a lot worse. Try a Seecamp, sometime -- it will beat you up. My Tomcat, while better than a Seecamp, still could be unpleasant if you were shooting a lot. Far more unpleasant than the P-11, and more expensive to buy and shoot, to boot.
>"One thing that is of great concern is "no drop safety"! The hammer rests on the firing pin which rests on the primer! Even Keltec admits drop it from 6 feet on its muzzle and
Kaboom!"
I don't think Kel-Tec admits any such thing. They just don't advocate that you drop a loaded weapon -- from any height.
The only time I've heard about this sort of thing happening was in a gun magazine; it was a comment by a writer who spoke of a "friend" who had the problem. When several Kel-Tec gun owners called him and pressed him for the specifics, he could NOT provide details. Anecdotal stories can generally be ignored.
Several owners on the KTOG website have tried , under safe conditions, to force an accidental discharge and have been unable to do so. (One gunsmith even went so far as to put a primed, empty cartridge in the gun, and them slammed it with a 2x4 while holding the gun in a padded vise. He could not make it discharge.)
I don't think accidental discharge is a real problem with this gun -- because of the basic design. The hammer is VERY light and must be moved a relatively long distance under spring loading to ignite the primer. Were the hammer heavier it might be a problem -- but it is, in fact, very light. (That's the design reason for the heavy trigger spring and long trigger pull!)
Getting used to double-action only is not easy, but if you install a trigger shoe (instructions on WWW.KTOG.ORG,), a trigger stop, and make a few other modifications (all detailed on the site), you'll find you've got a great, accurate, safe and reliable gun.
I gave some thought to getting a Kel-Tec .40 cal or getting the upgrade slide and barrel (which can be made into a .357 Sig cal weapon) but decided THAT would have had a very harsh recoil. I am not a masochist.
[This message has been edited by Walt Sherrill (edited August 14, 1999).]
I read the KTOG postings daily.
There are so many complaints about
the P11 , its not funny. The failure
rate is not acceptable , too bad.
The Gun is a great prototype , if
Glock or Kahr made it , the thing
would be reliable. The Kahr P9 will
be out soon as will the Glock 36.
There are so many complaints about
the P11 , its not funny. The failure
rate is not acceptable , too bad.
The Gun is a great prototype , if
Glock or Kahr made it , the thing
would be reliable. The Kahr P9 will
be out soon as will the Glock 36.
Jeff Thomas
New member
With all due respect, I was going to suggest the same. Try a Kahr K9 and MK9, also in their Elite version. You give up some weight and capacity advantages, but the gains seem greater. To each his own.
The whole picture: There are over 700 people posting to the KTOG list, many with multiple Kel-Tec pistols. I'd venture to say we're talking about well over a thousand pistols represented by the membership.
The complaint rate is *not* that high when viewed in context.
People who aren't having any trouble will rarely get everyone's attention just to say "Hey, my gun is running fine." Saying tat there are "so many complaints it's not funny" is quite simply disingenuous.
------------------
-stark-
http://www.23x.com/stark/guns
The complaint rate is *not* that high when viewed in context.
People who aren't having any trouble will rarely get everyone's attention just to say "Hey, my gun is running fine." Saying tat there are "so many complaints it's not funny" is quite simply disingenuous.
------------------
-stark-
http://www.23x.com/stark/guns
Jeff ,
I own a Kahr K40 , its .94" wide.
The recoil is very unfriendly but
next to Glocks I also trust it with
my life. I will be getting a P9 or
K9 in the Elite version of course.
The shorter trigger pull will increase
accuracy. Kahr told me that all the
P9's will have the Elite trigger?
The P9 will be .90" thick at 17oz.
instead of the 25oz. for the non
polymer. The problem is it will not
be available until the end of the
year. That really bites.
Stark ,
I have been receiving the Ktog digest
daily for a long long time now. There
are nothing but complaints. If the
"Glock Talk" web forum had nothing but
complaints (which it does not) about
Glock pistols , it would also skew my
opinion of that manufacturer. I do not
hear "horror story" after "horror story"
about glocks from Glock Talk. My pride
does not over-ride my common sense. My
life is alot more valuable than the
odds that my Keltec P11 might not fail.
I own a Kahr K40 , its .94" wide.
The recoil is very unfriendly but
next to Glocks I also trust it with
my life. I will be getting a P9 or
K9 in the Elite version of course.
The shorter trigger pull will increase
accuracy. Kahr told me that all the
P9's will have the Elite trigger?
The P9 will be .90" thick at 17oz.
instead of the 25oz. for the non
polymer. The problem is it will not
be available until the end of the
year. That really bites.
Stark ,
I have been receiving the Ktog digest
daily for a long long time now. There
are nothing but complaints. If the
"Glock Talk" web forum had nothing but
complaints (which it does not) about
Glock pistols , it would also skew my
opinion of that manufacturer. I do not
hear "horror story" after "horror story"
about glocks from Glock Talk. My pride
does not over-ride my common sense. My
life is alot more valuable than the
odds that my Keltec P11 might not fail.
I have a new stock P-11. I just shot over 200 rounds of Triton Quik-Shok through it to assess reliability. I didn't have any stoppages attributable to the gun. I did have a problem with a used preban S&W Hi-cap mag which wouldn't push the last round to the top of the mag. I will be swapping in Wolff springs soon.
With Triton, the gun is snappy, but very controllable. Other shooters at the range kept commenting on how loud my 9mm was. One guy thought I was shooting a 10mm. After 100 rounds, I did open up the skin on the last thumb knuckle. On my second session, I put mole foam on the knuckle prior to use. After 100 rounds, I didn't have any bleeding.
It actually had better practical accuracy than I expected. It does take practice to get used to the long trigger. I carry mine in a Mitch Rosen Pocket Softie so I like the idea of a long trigger given the lack of a safety. I use a pair of shorts with very large pockets. My wife hasn't "made" the P-11 when I carry it without her knowledge.
At distances beyond 25 feet, I do need to concentrate on my technique to get good groups, but they are obtainable.
Axel
With Triton, the gun is snappy, but very controllable. Other shooters at the range kept commenting on how loud my 9mm was. One guy thought I was shooting a 10mm. After 100 rounds, I did open up the skin on the last thumb knuckle. On my second session, I put mole foam on the knuckle prior to use. After 100 rounds, I didn't have any bleeding.
It actually had better practical accuracy than I expected. It does take practice to get used to the long trigger. I carry mine in a Mitch Rosen Pocket Softie so I like the idea of a long trigger given the lack of a safety. I use a pair of shorts with very large pockets. My wife hasn't "made" the P-11 when I carry it without her knowledge.
At distances beyond 25 feet, I do need to concentrate on my technique to get good groups, but they are obtainable.
Axel
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