Kel-Tec P11 Accuracy?

C

catmath 1911

New member
Hello All,

This is my first official post on The Firing Line, but I have been lurking here for a while. I got the bug recently, and have convinced myself that I need another handgun. I wanted something that is lightweight and compact, but still has a margin or inherent accuracy to it. I was wondering how the Kel-Tec fares in this department. After scouring KTOG.org I still can't find a definative answer to my question. I mainly want this gun for a recreational shooter, that if proves to be compatible, may get selected for CCW. Truth be told, the gin would probably see more time as a "fun gun" than anything else. What are your opinions on this firearm for this purpose?

Thanks to all,

catmath 1911
 
Catmath,

My advice is to stay away from it. It isn't very accurate, and it isn't very fun to shoot either. My buddy had one for a week (hint, hint) and we put 150 rounds through it. The trigger pull feels like a cheap staple gun, so even if it was inherently accurate (which it isn't), it would take one hell of a shooter to shoot one accurately past 10 yards. Let's put it this way, helping my buddy put those 150 rounds through that POS (sorry Kel Tec owners, just my opinion) felt more like a chore than pleasure.:(
 
My experience with the P-11 (which I no longer have) was quite Mylhouse's experience.

Mine was very accurate. And with a little work, the trigger was quite smooth... It was my primary carry weapon for two years, until I stumbled across a Star Firestar Plus (the alloy, lighter-version of the Star Firestar).

Never could get the hang of the LOOOOOONG double-action trigger, though -- but many others can and do.


Accuracy is at least as good as any other 3.5" barreled gun I've shot...

The trigger, however, is a challenge.

If you haven't done so, visit http://WWW.KTOG.ORG

This is the Kel-Tec Owners Group web site, and its full of good ideas, improvements, and tips.
 
I have a P-11 and a Sig 239...both are short barrelled guns..both are about as accurate as the other...the difference IS the trigger pull. YES, I have done the complete KTOG treatment, including the trigger shoe and stop. It does make a difference. But still it takes alot of practice to get use to the trigger pull. But when I get right down to it...I'm carrying this gun instead of my Guardian 32 or a KelTec 32.....It's small, very light weight and has been extremely reliable after 1500 rounds...and I'm throwing 9mm Cor Bon. The more I shoot it, the better I get with the trigger. It seems I Find myself staging the trigger pull...and I've talked to Glock owners that have said they do the same thing.
Bottom Line...find one that feels good and Practice.

Shoot Well
RH Factor
 
Thanks for the expediant replies!

I was really narrowing it down to a Kel-tec P11 or a Glock 19. I was hoping that the P11 could functionally offset the difference in price. (Trying to avoid getting the third degree from girlfriend:D) I guess I'll have to go a fondle the two a bit more to determine if it would just be a smarter move to pay the extra $230 for the glock.

Thanks Again,

catmath 1911
 
I've got a P-11 and like it a lot for its intended purpose, concealed carry. I couldn't really recommend it to most people as a recreational gun to shoot for fun. The trigger is long, not really too heavy, 8-9 lbs., and takes some practice to get used to. Might rent/borrow one if possible and see what you think.
 
what alamo said

i own a p11 and a 32.they are my main carry piece.i load for both and sometimes practice with cor -bon 125gr + ps in the 9.i am used to the trigger and i have done all the fluff and buff.i like mine.

swab
 
what alamo said

i own a p11 and a 32.they are my main carry piece.i load for both and sometimes practice with cor -bon 125gr + ps in the 9.i am used to the trigger and i have done all the fluff and buff.i like mine.

swab
 
P-11 is NOT a glock

Accurate? Trigger feel? I seriously doubt that when you're pumped up on adrenaline and facing death that you'd even feel a trigger pull of 20 or 30 pounds. If you're fighting for your life, you'll be lucky to be any further than 8 feet away. The KT is more than enough gun for that.

Compared to Glock? Why not buy 2 Kel Tecs and use the extra $100 on ammo. Then you can toss the one you don't like in the trash and still spend less than a Glock. The Glock is overrated, thick, long, and heavy compared to the P-11. There is no comparrison, they're not in the same class.

As for the double action trigger pull, it's shorter than many other da/sa's on the market and, unlike them, the trigger pull is not different from shot-to-shot.
 
I carry my P-11 all day, every day. I have over 12,000 rds thru it. I can shoot 3'' offhand at 15 yrds with it. But I would never mistake it for a recreational gun. There is a trade off for the size and weight. The KT's are not pleasant to shoot and take quite abit of practice to shoot well.
 
I bought a new P11 a few months ago. Out-of-the-box, it was fine, but I didn't like the trigger travel and over travel. I added the eraser stop, but it was a little cheesy for my taste. I tried and rejected the trigger shoe as well.

A thread on KTOG.org titled "Trigger Modification" led me to the trick of filing the hammer to reduce trigger travel, and I came up with tricks of my own to "move" the trigger arc just about anywhere I wanted within the guard and reduce the pull force as I wanted.

Now I've got a P11 with a 6.5# trigger that travels 0.55" and ends just shy of the grip. IOW, it's a perfect trigger that's totally solid, smooth, and consistent besides rivaling or beating the so-called great triggers on other pistols.

A P11's accuracy is most affected, IMO, by the trigger functioning. The long pull adversely affects it because it's awkward and hard to naturally maintain a solid sight alignment.

The other accuracy killing thing about the normal P11 trigger is the overtravel. Theoretically, the sudden loss of resistance on trigger release that causes the sudden movement off target shouldn't affect the barrel alignment on bullet exit since "that's instantaneous." It's also wrong. On trigger release, the spring snaps the hammer against the firing pin which travels to strike the primer, ignition, pressure rise, expansion, trravel in barrel, and finally exit. That's not an instantaneous sequence. In fact, I've seen tables that show measured times from ignition to exit.

The question is "Was I faster in using up the over travel and disturbing the pistol's aim by jerking it than the firing sequence to exit?" After modifying the trigger, I think the answer is yes.

All that's a long way to answer your question about the accuracy of the P11. It is accurate and consistent within the limitations of a short barrel 9mm Luger provided the shooter has the skill and control to offset the heavy, long, and overtraveling trigger. I just reduced the skill needed by messing around with the action....

BTW, if you want to drive tacks with a defensive class handgun, get a heavy one with a long barrel and tuned SA trigger -- probably in .45 ACP. Otherwise, get a .22....
 
I like my P11 a lot, and think it is ideal where light weight, compactness, and firepower are priorities. BUT, I wouldn't pick it as a fun gun for shooting at the range. I don't find it painful to shoot or anything, it is just that the size, weight, and (most of all) trigger pull make it difficult to shoot accurately. It's just more fun to shoot larger, heavier guns with lighter trigger pulls.

Doug
 
I think the P-11 is a great gun for concealed carry, but not a "fun gun". The trigger pull can make it difficult to shoot accurately for many people but this can usually be overcome by lots of practice.

My choice for a fun gun would be something bigger and heavier. If price is a problem, I suggest you look for a good used one. (A Berretta 92FS is one of the sweetest shooters I ever owned.)

Alan W.
 
For the weight and size the KelTec wins over the Glock.
To me the Glock had a much better trigger, so, it is more accrate.

Owing to the light wt. of the KelTec, I agree with others that it is not a "fun" gun to shoot.

I have had two. Both are gone. I like to shoot a lot, and a KelTec 9 is no fun to shoot.
The Glock will certainly be more fun at the range.
The KelTec will be much easier to carry.
A have a G19 as a "home or if-the-stuff-hits-the-fan" gun, but I am currently trying out a Kahr MK9 as a carry gun.
Costs as much as a Glock, (also built as well), incredible trigger, weighs the same as a Glock. Smaller than the Glock or the KelTec.

It all boils down to what you are comfortable with, and what you intend to do with the gun.

I started with KelTecs because I didn't want to spend the money on a Glock.
Got a Mini14 because I didn't want to spend the money on an AR.
Now those guns are gone, and I have a Glock and an AR that I love.
Think long and hard, then get the gun that you really want.
:)
 
Once again thanks to all who have posted on this topic. It has proved to be informative and persuasive in it's content. I have a loaded model Springfield 1911-A1, as well as a bull barrel Ruger MKII, both of which I use as recreational shooters. I mainly was interested in a compact gun of decent caliber, which after considerable range time, might prove a candidate for CCW if I ever wanted to carry a firearm for some reason. (Hopefully I will never feel threatened enough to do so) However I really don't want to purchase a firearm that is limited in capabilites, self-defense, or strictly target, but instead will fullfill both roles adequately. I guess I just want the most bang for the buck (no pun intended):rolleyes: Once again Thanks to all who have posted and who will continue to do so .

catmath 1911
 
I tend to agree with most of the reviews posted so far.

The P-11 is capable of good accuracy. The trigger is the limiting factor. It can be improved. Once you get used to the trigger, you can shoot it accurately. Here's my story.

I bought my P-11 used. I got to try it before I bought it. I had trouble with the trigger. But when I bench rested it, I got a 2" group at 15 yards. Pretty good for such a small gun. So I bought it.

My early offhand groups were more like 5-8" at 15 yards. Its hard to hold steady with a long, stiff trigger.

Then I discovered the pistol was essentially "dry". No oil on it. The trigger mechanism responded well to little oil. With a few hundred more rounds, the trigger becomes smooth. Long, but smooth.

I kept practicing. I got better at plinking. Plinking is more fun (for me anyway) than range work.

I shot it yesterday at the range. Still 2" groups at 15 yards on the bench. But now 4" groups at 15 yards offhand. The sights are pretty good. Did anyone mention that?

Its still not the most fun pistol to shoot. I enjoy shooting the Hi-Power a lot more. But the P-11 will do the job. And it carries better than the Hi-Power.

Its a great CCW piece.
 
Both the P-11 and P-32 are about as small as you get in their respective calibers. Size means some trade-offs.

The P-11 may not be a "fun" gun but once you put several hundred rounds through it you will definitely shoot any other gun better. It forces you to learn and master trigger control. But isn't that what we should have down pat anyway???

The P-32 is tiny - but effective. I Have shot the P-11 in IDPA and only with really long shots did it matter.

Remember, you will be more inclined to carry a "small" gun than a full sized. And carry always is what we should be doing. A P-11 is definitely not a Glock. Price wise, size, and weight it beats the Glock.

Give it a chance, just don't give up after ten rounds. Before you go to the range, dry fire a couple of hundred times which we should be doing anyway.

Enjoy! :)
 
P-11 or Glock 19

I have both a P-11 and a Glock 23, the .40 S&W version of the Glock 19. They really are different purpose firearms.

They both go "Bang!" every time I pull the trigger. They both have "plastic" frames. Neither has a manual safety. The similarities pretty much end there.

Size wise, you really have to lay them side by side to appreciate how much smaller the P-11 really is. It is much easier to conceal carry. That said, there seems to be a much better selection of concealed carry holsters for the Glock.

The Glock has a longer sight radius, so is easier to shoot accurately at longer distances.

The trigger pull is long on the P-11. I dry fire practice with it a lot. (Yeah, I use a snap cap, but I understand it really isn't that necessary.) The overtravel is a problem. The trigger stop is a very good idea.

I usually carry my P-11. I consider it the better compromise as a self-defense handgun.

Fun? Shooting either is fun! The P-11 is more challenging to shoot well, but there is fun in that. The Glock is just plain and simple a better, more capable handgun. You can't help but have fun shooting it.

Just watched the Olympic torch get carried by my office window. Cool!
 
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