Kel-tec P-11 and Kahr P9

R

RHC

New member
These guns seem like competitors, but I don't see many of the Kel-tecs.

The width of the P9 and its lightness seem like its big selling points. The Kel-tec is apparently even slightly lighter, but I can't find its width listed anywhere. I've fondled them both at gun shows but not fired them.

Who has experience with both? How do you compare them for:
a. carryability
b. accuracy
c. durability
d. reliability
 
I've owned a Kel-Tec P11 and have shot several Kahrs, including a P-9. The P-9 is the better gun, but it comes with important tradeoffs.

The P-11 trigger is hard to get used to (but so is the P-9's), and its difficult to shoot well because of the long DAO trigger pull. It takes a lot of practice to really get good. I had one for two years, and never really got good with it (but did shoot well with other guns.)

Both guns are light, reliable, accurate, and durable (or the P-9 seems to be durable; too new to know for sure.)

The big advantage of the P-11 is that you can get 15 round magazines for it -- the S&W Model 59 mags work, with a spacer from Kel-Tec -- and those extra rounds aver very comforting. The larger magazine adds a little over an ince to the grip length, and actually makes it easier to shoot. It really doesn't affect concealability unless you're trying to carry it in a pocket holster.

(I've since switched to a Star Firestar Plus [13 rounds] which will outshoot either the Kel-Tec or Kahr, and it has a lovely Single Action trigger, ala 1911.)

One advantage of the Kel-Tec is that you can do most of any needed gunsmithing yourself, but going to the Kel-Tec Owner's Group website and reading and looking at pictures. See http://www.ktog.org.

Both guns come with good warranties and good customer service reps.
 
My P-11 has been very reliable. The trigger pull is a little long, you'll never fire it by accident ;)

For $200 I dont mind leaving it in my vehicle.
 
I like the P-11 also but you'll hear from the Kahr
people too about what a great guns they make & I'm sure
they are based on what I've heard from them.
If the P-11 fits you better for concealment due to
its size & weight, get it.
The P-11's was not designed for target shooting. It was
designed for lightweight concealed carry.
You need to practice with it because the trigger is longer than most but not really heavier. The trigger shoe you can get from KT http://www.kel-tec.com helps most people.
 
The P-11 is just under an inch thick at it`s widest. The Keltec is smaller,lighter,holds more ammo and offers the Keltec belt clip eliminating the thickness and bulk of a holster. The DA pull is somewhat longer than the P9 but quite managable with practice. I wouldn`t carry anything DAO holsterless (belt clip)that had a shorter or lighter pull. I haven`t shot a P9 but I`ll give you my opinions for your questions on the P11. a)carryability: simply unmatched for a 9mm auto,period. b)accuracy: Good enough to make regular headshots at 15yds. c)durability: I can`t speak for all of em but my P-11 has around 5000rds. through it and other than a little finish wear it`s like new. 0 breakage and still tight as ever. d)reliability: again I can`t speak for others but in the aforementioned 5000rds. I`ve shot everything from Wolf and 3D cheapo ammo to Corbons and Triton Quickshoks with 0 jams. It`s the most reliable gun of any kind that I own. Yes it got the F&B treatment at near 1000rds. but only because I wanted to treat it. :) Your luck may not be as good but I wouldn`t trade my P-11 for any other compact 9mm. If you don`t care for the belt clip the Keltec looses a little ground to the P9. Try em both if you can I think you could be happy with either. Marcus
 
I've carried a P11 for over a year now. Have never had a failure in it except for my own mistake in one situation. I have not handled the Kahr and when I bought the P11 the Kahr was the "other choice." The deciding factor for me was price. A bit of research showed that the Kel-Tec was reliable, durable, and backed by excellent customer support. So, if all things were equal, I choose the less expensive of the two options.

Either way, if price is not an option that matters to you, I think you would be pleased with the Kahr or the Kel-Tec. Based on personal experience, though, I love my P11.
 
I've owned several different Kel-Tecs and Kahr's, tho' not the P9.

I have two stainless P-11s, one is below s/n 9000, and the other is above s/n 38,000. I've been using one for the range and one for carry.

View


I had originally thought I'd buy a steel framed Kahr for range use and a P9 for carry. Well, after working with the steel framed versions for awhile, I realized they offered nothing over the Kel-Tecs. Stephen A Camp's report of serious design problems with the slide stop on the P9 has kept me from trying on of them.

Bottom line: I sold the steel framed guns and kept the two Kel-Tec P-11s. The P-11s are both reliable (without the KTOG fluff and buff), accurate and easy to carry and conceal. I have the factory trigger shoe on both, plus a steel guide rod, PT night sights and the belt clip on the carry piece.
For more info on the Kel-Tec, try the message board at: www.ktog.org

Good luck.

[Edited by 9x19 on 01-03-2001 at 09:22 PM]
 
9x19's praise of the Keltec and my less than good experience with mine and similar good and bad posts on this and other pages leads me to believe that the quality control of this product leaves something to be desired. While the company has an exellent reputation for customer service, I think that they should spend a few more minutes of time in the factory and send out a better product. Yes, that will jack-up the price a few dollars, but it will be worth it.
 
Compare?

Who has experience with both? How do you compare them for:
a. carryability
b. accuracy
c. durability
d. reliability

Haven't owned, but have shot the Kahr in various iterations.
My biggest complaint about it is the weight [first model of the little sucker weighs almost as much as my P229] but the new polymer-frame version feels nice in the hand. The early problems with a too-tight chamber in the K9 were worked out in short order.

I've owned many Kel-Tecs. Current serial numbers are in the 100,000 range and the P-11 has pretty much had all the bugs worked out. I have one with over 2,000 rounds through it and I trust it enough to carry it.

It's lightweight, plenty accurate out to 25 yards if you know how to shoot it, hasn't ever required a repair and hasn't hiccupped once since the first 50 rounds through it.
It also makes a dandy car gun. :cool:

The P-40 model had a problem early on with a feed ramp that stuck into the mag well a bit...it didn't want to feed regularly. The factory fix took care of that in short order.
The factory has a .357 SIG barrel available for it.

The P-32 is the *best* really small/light/accurate back-up pistol on the market, IMO. At less than 10 ounces loaded, it just disappears in a pocket or inside a waistband. The factory has had more problems with it than any other in the lineup, but it is a very small, sophisticated locked-breech design...tolerances are just a lot more important in a package that small.

For the money, I don't think you can beat the Kel-Tec product...and the customer service is outstanding.
 
Stephen A Camp's report of serious design problems with the slide stop on the P9 has kept me from trying on of them.
Click to expand...
True, there was a problem with the slide stop on early P9's, but it was a simple fix. Replace the slide stop lever, and no more problems! I think "serious design problems" was, in retrospect, a bit overzealous an opinion.

I too toiled over the two pistols, finally coming to rest firmly on the Kahr P9. The margin was slim mind you, but the out and out QUALITY of the Kahr won me over.

The Kahr IS slimmer than the Kel-Tec.
IMO, the Kahr P9 (elite trigger) has the SMOOTHEST DAO trigger around! It is without a doubt (opinion imminent) the BEST TRIGGER I have EVER manipulated! I see NO comparison to the Kel-Tec trigger, which was a MONSTER, second in stiffness only to the old AMT DAO backup.

The kel-Tec is shorter than the Kahr. The Kel-Tec holds 3 more rounds than the Kahr. The Kel-Tec is 1/2 the price of a Kahr.

Customer service for BOTH companies is superb. Some KT's shoot right out of the box, some need a couple trips to the factory. Kahr's did have a problem to start out with, but since that one's been corrected, "bad eggs" are few and far between, and most are out of the box shooters.

There, now your decision should be clear as MUD! :D

For me personally, it was the MUCH better trigger (before you flame me, make sure you're not talking about a K9 you handled :) ) and more dependable out of box performance that made me fork over twice the price. If I KNEW it would be a shooter, and the trigger was a little lighter, I'd have opted for the P11.

As I sit here, I eagerly await my Kel-Tec P32HC on backorder at the local gunshop :D
 
I`m curious what do the slide and grip of the P9 actually measure,thickness wise? It does look like a really sleek package. Marcus
 
I have the 9mm as well. When i got the gun i thought it was gonna be my cheap car/dash to the store gun. But i fell in love with the little feller. Now that ive moved to NC and am able to carry, ive tried all of my guns and the kel-tec goes with me pretty much everywhere.

After carrying this full capacity 9MM you will be spoiled and probably only carry your other guns because you feel as if you are neglecting them, not because you want to.

It wasnt the best shooter out of the box. But with some very inexpensive mods straight from the factory, its a dream. Its a great shooter now that ive added...

1)trigger shoe. cheap mod makes it feel like a full blown trigger job. very smooth and not as long.

2)steel guide rod. I cant see or feel any difference, but it sure looks good all polished up and makes me feel better than that flimsy plastic it came with.

3)Magazine extention. As seen above, it makes the gun look 100% nicer. it engulfs my big hands and makes the gun feel like a full size pistol. Lots of control. I like it!

4)Houge handall grips. Awesome addition to the already light weight pistol. It feels empty even with 11 rounds loaded.Gread add on item.

I spent one night at my desk with a dremel and made it look like a show piece. That dirty looking rough and pitted barrel it comes with, looks like a mirror. I get tons of complements. I also polished the slide release (like 9x19's pics above) A little fluff and buff goes a long way with these little wonders. Feed ramp is a must.

For the money I cant see a better pistol anywhere on the market today. If you are in the market for something you will NEVER leave at home. Dont deny yourself a close look at the P-series Kel-Tec

Tim : )
 
Hello, Onslaught. I did replace the slide stop lever, but it did no good; same problem kept cropping up. Tried yet another one and it, too, did no good. To me, this brand new defensive arm had three strikes in that it came defective and two attempts from the company to fix it yielded no correction.
To me, that was and is a a "serious flaw." I do think that my particular gun may've been dimensionally such that the changes that worked in other guns just didn't in it and I would never complain about the courtesy and polite attempts by Kahr to correct the problem. They did what they could short of me sending them the gun. I chose not to and got rid of it. Since then, two more fellows in my neck of the woods are having the exact same problems. I've advised them to contact Kahr, but have not learned if their problems were solved.

So for now, I'll hang on to the K9, but let the P9 pass. I do prefer the feel and looks of the P9 to the Glock 26 I replaced it with.

Best.
 
Kel-Tec? Kahr? shoes?

That's it. I'm done.:confused:

Was followin' this pretty good 'til 9x19.

Now I don't even know if it's even guns.

Time for bed. Try again in the mornin'......
 
Do a search for "Kahr Kel-tec P9 P11" -- lots of opinions.

FWIW, My P9 did need a new slide stop lever. OTOH, My P11 never stopped ejecting into my face and the heavy trigger made my hands tremble from strain after a range session.
 
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