KB! with my new Glock 32

R

ROSANGHAL

New member
Well I think I decided on which one I'll be carrying over the other. The 23 has got my vote. I really, really, really wanted to like the .357 sig too.

I cleaned out the barrel last night and went out this mornining with a shooting buddy and we were going to throw some bullets downrange, and this is how it went.

I loaded up all my mags the night before so all we had to do was set up targets, get eyes and ears on and then test them out. Had some trouble getting my .357 rounds in the .40 10 rounders, could only get 7 rounds in them. No problem I figured it would loosen up after some rounds have gotten through. If I was only so lucky.

I aimed in on plates at about 25 yrds and was still trying to figure out the zero. I had the gun shop install night sights and I wanted to see if they were off. I saw chunks flying off the plate from time to time. Liked that.

Let the buddy shoot a couple rounds through and he liked it too. We both noticed it was a lot louder than our 40's. To it felt like there was a tad bit more muzzle flip than the standard pressure 40's but nothing to complain about.

Had about 35 rounds through the 32 and decided to try and hit the steel plates out at 50 yrds.

So I aimed in and fired 2 rounds then pulled the trigger. Nothing!?!? Looked at the pistol looked fine the trigger would go all the way back with no resistance. I went to retract the slide and then notice it was just a touch out of battery. I figured that's all it was. Still needs to break in, No biggie.

Let go of slide and seemed to go into battery. Slowly pulled the trigger and met the resistance and continued to pull until. BOOM!!!! Immense pain in both my hands. Dropped the pistol onto the table and couldn't believe the pain I was feeling. I was afraid to look down and see how the hands looked for a moment.

Looked at the pistol and saw the magazine blew out of the frame. The slide was partially open. My friend tried to retract the slide and it wouldn't go.

My hands felt real bad and there were powder burns on them.

Friend took the slide up against the table, ejected the brass and we saw a casing that was blown. The mags mouth looked like a rat gnawed on it with brass embedded in it. Found 2 rounds which looked like they were seated in too far into the bullet. Not sure wether it was from the KB or hitting the feed ramp or if it came out the box that way.

My buddy has a digital camera and he said he'll take pics and send them to me so I can post them. He has the case and the mag and the other bullets. When I get home today I will go through the other boxes of ammo to see if it came from the box like that.

The ammo was Remington UMC 125 gr.

I haven't inspected the inside of the pistol yet but I will later on tonight.

I really like the Glock and I really wanted to like the .357 sig cartridge but this does put some doubt into me now.

I'll post the pics as soon as I have them.

Ross T.
 
Damn, that sucks. Your hands are OK, right?

BTW, you might want to advise Remington of the case failure, along with the lot number.
 
Glad you're okay.

I like UMC ammo in 9mm from Wally World but they do have a question mark over their production quality in many people's minds. This is the first .357 Sig blow out I have personally heard of and I've been watching for them carefully, the super high pressures involved tended to make me think it was only a matter of time before they started to appear, but like I say, this is the first, for me at least.

It just had to be a Glock didn't it, I have no particular axe to grind in respect of this lame old horse of a topic, but you rarely seem to read about other guns blowing pieces off shooter's hands, you know, maybe, just maybe they really are a POS in any caliber other than 9x19. Personally I think the 19 is a superb pistol but other than the 17 you can keep the rest.

Hope you didn't get any powder under the skin, I've heard that can be most unpleasant, if so, get some ER treatment.

Best,

Mike H
 
YIKES! Hope your hand is OK. I'd do a couple of things.

Keep the remainder of that box of ammo.
Don't attempt any repairs on the Glock, though I'd take a bunch of close-up pictures of everything.

Contact both Glock and Remington.
 
Very scary. Glad you're OK.

Many people reload the .40 Glocks to major levels for IPSC, and general usage. As I understand it, the pressures in the .357 are as high. It doesn't take much of a bullet set-back, either with factory or reloads, to send the pressures sky high. BOOOM.

The 9mm Glocks take the pressure well... a near-fully supported chamber, thicker walls of chamber, etc. I prefer lower pressure rounds myself, other than 9mm, just for the extra margin of safety (not to say you can't blow up a 1911 .45 if you try!)

Glock will take care of you. Take care.
 
Ouch. I'm glad you still have all your body parts. I would be very apprehensive in your shoes as well <g>

This is the third 357 SIG kaboom I've heard of: 2 glocks and one SIG P229.

The P229 owner said that his kb was caused from bullet setback. From everything I've read and experienced, bullet setback is the kb culprit for the 357 SIG.

Even with factory ammo, I'd do the thumb pressure test on a weighing scale. Measure the bullet length before and after to see if the bullet is holding in place. You should be able to put about 50 lbs of pressure on the bullet without it slipping. You can also put a round in a magazine and then use the full force of the slide to load it into the chamber. Then carefully extract the bullet and measure the cartridge for bullet slippage.

A couple years ago I had to return some Federal 357SIG jhp ammo because of bullet slippage. I was afraid to shoot it. Just because it's factory ammo, doesn't mean it's infallible.

Some ammo companies are actually gluing the bullet in place to handle this issue now.

As a reloader of the 357 SIG I've learned a couple things as well. Regardless of what the literature says, you should reload the 357 SIG like a little rifle bullet. I even use a mild roll crimp on a cannelured bullet. This gives ultimate seating strength --- over 75 lbs of thumb pressure with no slippage. Note: If I could not have solved the bullet setback issue with the 357 SIG, I would have dropped it. Some reloaders seem to do fine with no cannelure and a strong taper crimp. The key is not to expand the case mouth any more than necessary to squeeze the bullet into place.

If you have any rounds left, try the thumb pressure test on a couple. Or, borrow a gun to cycle one into the chamber with the full force of the slide. I'm guessing the ammo screwed you.

The Glock 357's are well supported in the 6 o'clock position and I don't have any specific evidence that the kb's are a result of a chamber problem. But I'm not omniscient either.

Bullet setback is easily controllable with the 357 SIG. It's a new enough cartridge that some ammo companies might not fully understand it yet. I've heard of "many" complaints with Remington UMC 357 SIG ammo. But double-check your factory ammo anyway, as well as reloads. Better safe than sorry. There is a cautionary 357 SIG faq at www.greent.com in the calibers section.

I've had bullet setback issues with other calibers like the .45 as well. As a safety precaution, if there is a misfeed or jam, then eject the cartridge in question, instead of trying to get it in the chamber and fire it. That's because the initial problem can cause bullet setback --- very important.

I had a really close call with my Glock 21. The bullet setback caused a high pressure and the brand new brass just barely held together -- stretched to the absolute max. The recoil was much stronger than normal. Thank God is was brand new brass.

Regarding your Glock mags only holding 7 rounds: That problem can be solved by getting Glock 357 magazines which have the correct follower for that cartridge. The spring still has to be broken in, but it'll work fine.

If it helps at all, the New Mexico State Police just purchased Glock 31 pistols and appear to be quite happy.

good luck.
 
Hope your hands weren't too severely damaged.

Huh, this past Easter I went home and dropped by a gun range to inquire about membership pricing, advantages, and limitations. One of the stipulations the guy behind the counter said that when using rental guns, only factory ammo is allowed EXCEPT FOR UMC. I enquired about that and he said that they have had some (at least 2) kBs with them.

- Ron V.
 
Rosanghal, I had the same exact problem. I bought a new 32 last fall, and after shooting about 30 rounds of UMC, I had a KB. It happened exactly the same way yours did. The mag fell out damaged, and the slide was locked backed with the bulged case in it. I called Remington and Glock and told them one of them should be responsible for the gun. Glock said to send them the gun and Remington wanted the ammo and both said they would help me. Glock fixed the gun and sent it back to me. I called them and told them I wanted a new gun not a patched up one. After talking to numerous people and spending a lot of money on phone bills they finally agreed to give me a new gun at no cost. This whole ordeal went on for about 2 months, but I felt I deserved a new gun because the one that blew up was new. But since I received my new gun, I have shot about 1000 rounds of blazer and 300-400 rounds of various other ammo(but never anymore UMC or Remington products). I have 5 other caliber guns but none of them come close to the .357sig in my opinion as far as stopping power and easy to shoot. I was able to get some of the new Ranger-T series LEO ammo last week, and I was very impressed with the expansion and penetration in a Fackler box. Don't let this one incident keep you from using the .357sig. Just keep away from Remington products and you'll be pleased.
 
Thanks everybody

I'm also real happy I can still count to ten without having to remove articles of clothing.

My trigger finger, on the right, is still a little tender at the first digit, and red. There is a straight black line on my thumb from my first knuckle to the thumb print that just doesn't want to seem to want to come off. Other than that I think they'll both be fine.

Coinneach, I am going to get in touch with both Glock and Remington.

I've dealt with Glock before on a 23 pitted barrel and they took very good care of me. I'm sure, or I hope, they'll do the same in this case also.

Mike H., I get to talk to Jim Garthwaite about once a month and he's shown me some pretty bad Kb's with 1911's, Browning Hi-Powers, revolvers, single shot pistols and a bunch of others. They looked Real nasty compared to mine. I just think the Glock gets more publicity when ever something like this happens.

I have a 19 also and I like it. I'm just the kinda guy who likes MORE :) . But not at the expense of limbs.

Kimber Man, I just got in a little while ago and haven't had a chance to check out the pistol yet. I'll do it tonight before I hit the hay or sometime tommorrow. At the range my friend and I did a quick looksie at the insides and besides the mag everything looked alright. No bulged barrel, no cracks in the frame. Later on I even put a mag in to see if the mag catch was damaged and if it wiggled in the frame or not. It seemed fine.

Considering the fact that the mag had brass peices embedded into it I think it held up remarkably well.

I'm going to give it a more thorough look at and I'll post if I find anything.

Johnwill, my friend has the case, some fragments and the mag. He is going to take a bunch of digital pics for me and I will save them and post them.

Chaho, I want a new gun but I'm not going to pay another $200 for a gun I just bought. I like Glock and all but I'm not going to put more into a gun that shouldn't have done it in the first place so that it will do the job it was suppose to do.

Covert Mission I'm not sure if it was the bullet being pushed in or not. But when I saw those two cartridges with bullets further in than the other ones I started wondering if that's what caused it. I'm going to check out other boxes from the case I got. I probably just going to end up returning this case anyways. I don't feel comfortable shooting UMC now. But I'll check it out to see if any others are like that.

petej88, with the Kb in the Sig what damage was done to the pistol? What about the shooter, did he have any injuries?

I'm wondering if the flexing of the polymer frame saved me from more injury that could've happened if it was an alloy frame. I'm also thinking if the grips where seperate than the frame how much of that would've blown off into little shrapnel peices.

I'll do that thumb test on future bullets from now on, but I'm not even going to waste my time with this UMC bunch.

I've also heard about the follower being different on some 40 mags. I checked the followers on both the .357 sig and .40 and they look absolutely the same. Unless they are different from the inside but the outward appearance looks like the other.

I'll also check out the web site. Thanks for the heads on on that.

hksigwalther, consider yourself lucky that you were given good info. I wished someone would have told me about Remingtons UMC before this happened.

I guess you know how I feel undertaker. I feel the same way. I don't want a repaired gun. I paid for a new pistol and didn't even have over 50 rounds through it. Will I give the .357 sig another chance? I'll consider it but I can't imagine how bad my "anticipation flinch" will be with it. I'll have to put a lot more training time with it before I will trust it enough to carry.

I also have 4 other calibers and was really excited about getting this new kid on the block cartridge. But right now I'm thinking it don't like me to much right now.

You won't have to tell me twice about shying away from Remington UMC.

Ross T.



[This message has been edited by ROSANGHAL (edited April 26, 2000).]
 
Having blown up a Glock 21, shooting my .400 Cor-Bon reloads, it's pretty evident to me what happened. When the slide was out of battery, you had already had a setback on the feed ramp. If you'd have cleared the gun at that time, you'd have been able to see the setback. I did the same thing with .400 Cor-Bon. Since I was shooting reloads and fired a setback bullet, I didn't expect Glock to do anything for me. They did, however, sell me a brand new G21 for $250, plus taxes. They also gave me a new set of Trijicons and gave me my original Glock barrel back as a spare and sent back the aftermarket trigger connector. I certainly can't complain about my treatment by Glock.

I've since learned a whole lot more about loading bottleneck handgun ammo. I cannelure every bullet and roll crimp into the cannelure, using an RCBS seater/crimp die. Have fired thosands of rounds of .400 Cor-Bon since the Kb with no problems. Am now playing around with .40 Super, which is a high-pressure round and is more inclined to Kb than .400 Cor-Bon, which is a low-pressure round. Still canneluring all my bullets for .40 Super.

BTW, Glocks don't need to be broken in, like other handguns. If your slide doesn't go into battery, something's wrong.

[This message has been edited by WalterGAII (edited April 26, 2000).]
 
I am very sorry this happened.

I am confident that your hands are okay because theGlock polymer frame absorbs the energy well. I pray that my confidence remains true to fact.

UMC is garbage. I won't shoot it. It has a widespread reputation with .357 Sig shooters as garbage.

The Glock .357 is pretty much totally supported in the chamber like the 9mm Glocks are. The pressure must have spiked really high from the setback.
Are you sure that you did not get a did round that stuck in the barrel? That happened to a friend with Wolf 9mm ammo.

You may have gotten a hold of some old ammo? Many companies are now gluing the bullets in and/or crimping tighter. Setbacks used to be a problem but are not supposed to be any more.
 
ROSANGHAL - For what it's worth, I have recently had problems with my G23 not going fully into battery until I reset the trigger, and I had one occurrence like yours, of the trigger going all the way to the rear and nothing happening (no kB!, though). I stripped it down completely and looked at everything under a bright light. I observed that the finish on the firing pin safety was rough - it looked like a chrome bumper when the chrome is bubbling up and peeling off. I speculated that the extra friction when it engages the triangular "ramp" on the trigger bar is what is preventing it from going into battery. Haven't had a chance to test the gun with a new part.

That doesn't help with your kB!, but it may be worth looking at, since (I've heard) Glocks have been known to fire when slightly out of battery.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The 357 Sig bullet 'can' creep or slip into the case, even with brand new factory ammo, based on my experience. While this condition can occur with most all calibers, the 357 Sig only has approximately 1/8" of neck to hold the bullet, although that is sufficient if the round is loaded correctly. Another issue which is discussed in item 13 below, is that the 357 Sig shoulder may not always be positioned correctly, which can cause strange light primer strikes and ignition problems.[/quote]

See here for more: http://greent.com/40Page/ammo/357/357SIG-caution.htm
 
Ross T.,

Thank God that your hands hurt(ie. pain). Its when you can't feel them that you are really in trouble; not to say that pain isn't a good indicator of injury though. Glad that it isn't as serious as it could have been. Take care.

robert

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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)
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"Reasonable gun law?............There's No such critter!" --EQ

[This message has been edited by EQUALIZER (edited April 27, 2000).]
 
I have had 2 seperate instances of UMC 357SIG cases seperating in my SIG's chamber..
Won't shoot the stuff anymore.
What's this about the Glunk chamber being fully supported? It is not...in many cases that's why the KB's happen.

Ben
 
Here we go again about Glocks kb'ing, and Glocks barrels being unsupported. The Glocks in the "mm" calibers have fully supported chanbers, as much support as a semi-auto can have. The only true "Fully" supported chamber are in revolvers. The "caliber" Glocks have looser chambers with the exception of the .357Sig, it has a fully supported chamber. It is either a problem with the gun or the ammo, beings it didn't fully go into battery. It also seems the ammo manufacturers are using weaker brass than they should in the higher pressure loads. If the gun would have been fully in battery then it would be a case of c"Case Failure". All gun brands have blown up, just some receive more attention than others.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bennett Richards:
What's this about the Glunk chamber being fully supported? It is not...in many cases that's why the KB's happen.

Ben[/quote]

It probably would be instructive for you to at least look at some of the guns you're trashing before shooting off your mouth. I have 9mm and .45ACP Glocks, and their chambers are as well supported as the other 9mm and .45ACP guns I own or have shot. My Glock 21 & 30 have as much support as either of my 1911 stock barrels. The Glock 17 & 26 have as much support as my Keltec and Daewoo DP51. I've also looked at other examples of 9mm and .45ACP pistols, and I don't see any problem with chambers of any of my Glocks in comparison.
 
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