following a news article about how some candidates are gearing up for the 2008 election. The discussions are quite comical with the "Libs" and the "Cons" throwing insults back and forth. However, one of the people in the discussion mentioned that we need a 3rd party. Not wanting to be left out, I said I would possibly vote third party, provided they appealed to my rights as a gun owner. Someone wrote back to look into the Libertarian Party, which I did. Can anyone comment on whether or not they put their actions where their mouth is? (Their website said they believe in the freedom to own firearms, rights of people to defend themsleves, etc. and it sounded similar to the Republican Party) Are they truly the "salvation" they claim to be?
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Just reading a Yahoo discussion...
- Thread starter culcune
- Start date
A lot of us would have gone whole-hog Libertarain if it wasn't for their uncompromising opposition to the draft.
Libertarianism grew directly out of the philosophy of Ayn Rand, as expounded in books such as "Atlas Shrugged" and "The Fountainhead".
The whole philosophy/politic is built upon absolute reason and who in their right mind could oppose that.
The Libertarian Party is what real Americans wish the Republican Party had been. Unfortunately, the RNC has sold us 2A type conservatives down the pipe a time or two. OK, I'll admit, the real 2A right wingers like me are no longer "conservatives", as much as right wing fanatics.
I'm anxious to see how others react to your question.
Libertarianism grew directly out of the philosophy of Ayn Rand, as expounded in books such as "Atlas Shrugged" and "The Fountainhead".
The whole philosophy/politic is built upon absolute reason and who in their right mind could oppose that.
The Libertarian Party is what real Americans wish the Republican Party had been. Unfortunately, the RNC has sold us 2A type conservatives down the pipe a time or two. OK, I'll admit, the real 2A right wingers like me are no longer "conservatives", as much as right wing fanatics.
I'm anxious to see how others react to your question.
Unfortunately, the winner-take-all system for awarding presidential electors and electing legislators makes it very difficult for a third party to rise. The last one to do it was the Republicans in the nineteenth century, and the Whigs had to self-destruct before it could happen. Many people who vote for Republicans or Democrats would, I suspect, vote Libertarian if they thought the Libertarian party could seriously challenge one or the other party to take over its role in the "two-party" system.
Our system has a lot to recommend it (managing eight parties in a ruling coalition, as several European parliamentary majorities had had to do in the past, is not easy). One of its problems, however, is that the two parties tend to "ossify" because third parties with new (sometimes better) ideas have a hard time mounting effective challenges at the ballot box.
Our system has a lot to recommend it (managing eight parties in a ruling coalition, as several European parliamentary majorities had had to do in the past, is not easy). One of its problems, however, is that the two parties tend to "ossify" because third parties with new (sometimes better) ideas have a hard time mounting effective challenges at the ballot box.
progunner1957
Moderator
Coming to a White House near you: The Republicrat party!
I gotta take issue with you on that, Rabbi. I am a conservative - an Absolute Conservative. I have not gotten to be more right-wing or "fanatical" over the decades; my position has not changed.
It is the "Republican" party whose position has changed.
IMHO, Barry Goldwater was the embodiment of the Conservative/Republican
philosophy. He was never put on the Republican ticket to run for President, because the Republican party's slide to the left was underway even back then.
Ronald Reagan was a great man and a great President, but I think of him as a "modified" Republican. IMHO, he would have never been allowed to run for President if he had not agreed to put George Bush #41 - Mr. Skull and Bones, CFR and New World Order - on the ticket in the #2 spot, giving 41 a very good chance at the White House after Reagan served his 8 years.
The Republican party's drift to the left continues unabated today. In 20 years, a "Republican" President will be indistinguishable from one James Earl "peanut boy" Carter. :barf:
That's where the "Republican" party is headed - to becoming the "Republicrat" party. Conservative values continue to be compromised, watered down and sold out by the "leaders" of the "Republican" party.
Unless something drastic happens - conservative values, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, our freedom and the soverignty of the United States will be sold down the river in exchange for Political Correctness and socialism - even more than is already the case.
Judging from their actions - with very few exceptions - the neverending quest for absolute power/zero accountability that is the obsession of our "leaders" is all that matters to them, Republican and Democrat alike.
They will get what they want, and as always, We The People will be left with no chair when the music stops.
OK, I'll admit, the real 2A right wingers like me are no longer "conservatives", as much as right wing fanatics.
I gotta take issue with you on that, Rabbi. I am a conservative - an Absolute Conservative. I have not gotten to be more right-wing or "fanatical" over the decades; my position has not changed.
It is the "Republican" party whose position has changed.
IMHO, Barry Goldwater was the embodiment of the Conservative/Republican
philosophy. He was never put on the Republican ticket to run for President, because the Republican party's slide to the left was underway even back then.
Ronald Reagan was a great man and a great President, but I think of him as a "modified" Republican. IMHO, he would have never been allowed to run for President if he had not agreed to put George Bush #41 - Mr. Skull and Bones, CFR and New World Order - on the ticket in the #2 spot, giving 41 a very good chance at the White House after Reagan served his 8 years.
The Republican party's drift to the left continues unabated today. In 20 years, a "Republican" President will be indistinguishable from one James Earl "peanut boy" Carter. :barf:
That's where the "Republican" party is headed - to becoming the "Republicrat" party. Conservative values continue to be compromised, watered down and sold out by the "leaders" of the "Republican" party.
Unless something drastic happens - conservative values, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, our freedom and the soverignty of the United States will be sold down the river in exchange for Political Correctness and socialism - even more than is already the case.
Judging from their actions - with very few exceptions - the neverending quest for absolute power/zero accountability that is the obsession of our "leaders" is all that matters to them, Republican and Democrat alike.
They will get what they want, and as always, We The People will be left with no chair when the music stops.
Right now, most "conservatives" don't like the Libertarian Party for two reasons:
1) Open border policy
2) End of the War on Drugs
I haven't heard of the opposition to the draft until now.
"Progressives" (libs) on the other hand don't like the party due to it's intense commitment to Freedoms, especially the 2nd. But they like the party due to the two reasons that the "conservatives" don't.
So, they will never be a major running party unless the die-hards on both sides just get so sick and tired of the main parties that they feel the need to switch en masse.
Wayne
1) Open border policy
2) End of the War on Drugs
I haven't heard of the opposition to the draft until now.
"Progressives" (libs) on the other hand don't like the party due to it's intense commitment to Freedoms, especially the 2nd. But they like the party due to the two reasons that the "conservatives" don't.
So, they will never be a major running party unless the die-hards on both sides just get so sick and tired of the main parties that they feel the need to switch en masse.
Wayne
The Libertarians also suffer from having a kind of simple philosophy that demands simplistic answers, like the border thing. It is my understanding that they would abolish programs like the EPA.
Really, I'd just like to see a party with a middle of the road platform. I don't think most people are ardently conservative, or totally liberal. I'd like to see free speech, equal rights and 2A all equally defended. I would like to see fewer laws, not more to accomodate conservative OR liberal philosophies.
Really, I'd just like to see a party with a middle of the road platform. I don't think most people are ardently conservative, or totally liberal. I'd like to see free speech, equal rights and 2A all equally defended. I would like to see fewer laws, not more to accomodate conservative OR liberal philosophies.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Both parties are run by the nutcases of their extreme wings. They focus on social positions so out of touch with sensible middle America. Each set of loonies offers a path to some ideological tyranny.
However, these psychos are the ones that contribute money and so the parties cater to religious fanatics rivaling the Ayatollah and nuts who think deer in Alaska are more important than national survival.
It is also the case that profreedom beliefs span both parties but both have defined themselves as hating a basic liberty or two such that you have to hold your nose and vote for the candidate who is less odious.
I support the RKBA as a basic right so most of the Dems are objectionable. I find the GOP is too involving with putting their nose into people's sex and reproductive rights and wanting to force their religion on others.
Neither are worth a damn on immigration. Neither is truly interested in energy independence.
A pox on both parties. I'm sick of mindless loyalty to some president of the left or the right. I barf when I see folks who defended Clinton's affairs and I barf when folks are unable to see that Bush is clueless about the real war we are engaged in.
Rant off!! Time to go shopping.
However, these psychos are the ones that contribute money and so the parties cater to religious fanatics rivaling the Ayatollah and nuts who think deer in Alaska are more important than national survival.
It is also the case that profreedom beliefs span both parties but both have defined themselves as hating a basic liberty or two such that you have to hold your nose and vote for the candidate who is less odious.
I support the RKBA as a basic right so most of the Dems are objectionable. I find the GOP is too involving with putting their nose into people's sex and reproductive rights and wanting to force their religion on others.
Neither are worth a damn on immigration. Neither is truly interested in energy independence.
A pox on both parties. I'm sick of mindless loyalty to some president of the left or the right. I barf when I see folks who defended Clinton's affairs and I barf when folks are unable to see that Bush is clueless about the real war we are engaged in.
Rant off!! Time to go shopping.
MeekAndMild
New member
The last time a serious third party challenger arose it was the reborn George Wallace, after he had purged his platform of its racist direction and embraced moderate conservatism emphasizing equality and smaller government.
He ended up being shot.
He ended up being shot.
I consider myself a libertarian, at least I think I agree with more libertarian positions than any other party. Check out the webpage http://www.lp.org/issues/issues.shtml and see what you think. A more indepth list is here http://www.lp.org/issues/platform_all.shtml
Someone earlier said conservatives wouldn't like the end of the war on drugs and immigration policies of the party, they also wouldn't like the abortion stance, gay marriage, and countless other things. I think its more a blend of economically conservative and socially liberal to me. Something I normally either have to choose one or the other with thanks to the 2 main parties.
Someone earlier said conservatives wouldn't like the end of the war on drugs and immigration policies of the party, they also wouldn't like the abortion stance, gay marriage, and countless other things. I think its more a blend of economically conservative and socially liberal to me. Something I normally either have to choose one or the other with thanks to the 2 main parties.
In every election we hear the term "vote for the lesser evil when it comes to the two parties".
Yet in reality and from that statement, we are still voting for evil.
There was a poll years back, I don't have a link or sources to it, that most of the American People would not have voted for George Washington at that time and thought that we should have remained under British rule.
We have to face the facts and look into the future, the Conservatives and the Progressives are leading us to the same place, just one faster than the other.
And the worse fact that we have to face is that America is only a two party system, has been for years and will be forever. You really only have two choices, all others (parties) will be able to tip the balance, but only for the good of the two choices given.
Washington, Jefferson, Adams and all the rest couldn't be elected to office in this day and age even if they spent billions of dollars on their campaign. People are not interested in the ideals that America was founded, they are more interested in what they can get from the system, what America can do for them, not what they can do for America.
And it will continue until mankind looks upon the sky for the last time.
Wayne
Yet in reality and from that statement, we are still voting for evil.
There was a poll years back, I don't have a link or sources to it, that most of the American People would not have voted for George Washington at that time and thought that we should have remained under British rule.
We have to face the facts and look into the future, the Conservatives and the Progressives are leading us to the same place, just one faster than the other.
And the worse fact that we have to face is that America is only a two party system, has been for years and will be forever. You really only have two choices, all others (parties) will be able to tip the balance, but only for the good of the two choices given.
Washington, Jefferson, Adams and all the rest couldn't be elected to office in this day and age even if they spent billions of dollars on their campaign. People are not interested in the ideals that America was founded, they are more interested in what they can get from the system, what America can do for them, not what they can do for America.
And it will continue until mankind looks upon the sky for the last time.
Wayne
From what I gather, the Libertarians or any other 3rd party would most likely never have a chance. With all of the Dems and Reps in the "lower" ends of the government up to the Senate, there would be little chance to see a third party. I did like the Libertarian party's stance on firearms...
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
I think you are correct, Crosshair.
Watching the morning news shows on Sunday, you just see party hacks more interested in real election than America. These fools let you lose your jobs and your kids die in war.
Watching the morning news shows on Sunday, you just see party hacks more interested in real election than America. These fools let you lose your jobs and your kids die in war.