Just how "weak" is the S&W 19?
- Thread starter Martowski
- Start date
M
M58
Guest
More rounds than most people want to shot/subject their hands to...
I traded with a LEO for my early model 66 K frame 25 years ago when I was in college and couldn't spare much cash. He had competed heavily in the PPC matches with it at that time and was breaking in a "fresh" one. I proceeded to bang up buckets of reloads, factory mag loads, 38 WCs, hot magnum loads, whatever I could get or make. I have no idea how many rounds.
Yeah, it's gotten a little tired and loose and could use a tune up. But it is far from worn out or dangerous.
I never considered it weak.
Yeah, it's gotten a little tired and loose and could use a tune up. But it is far from worn out or dangerous.
I never considered it weak.
How "weak" is any gun? The Model 19 will withstand a fair amount of shooting with full-Magnum ammo...I have a mid-1970's production Model 19 that "shook loose" after 14,000 or so rounds...2,500 were factory Maggies. After a trip to Springfield, it was good as new...for a while! After ANOTHER 11,000 rounds, its again in need of a tune-up...tho' it HAS NOT yet started to "spit" or have misfires, which it DID DO before being sent back the first time...but its getting close! FWIW, I've got an early-production Model 586(blued L-frame)that has gone 35,000 rounds...just now getting some real "wear" on it...only about 3,500 rounds thru the 586 have been factory Magnums...the rest have ranged from "Plus-P" .38's to mild .38 wadcutters. Most in "the Industry" have opined that what WILL wear a "medium-frame" .357 FASTEST is the use of the 125-gr Magnum loads...the ones that have the best "Stopping Power" ratings. If you use 158-gr. Magnum loads in moderation, I don't think longevity of a Model 19/66 would become a concern for many, many moons....Mikey357
Thanks for the replies, everyone. I just keep hearing that the 686 (which I own and adore) was produced because 19/66s were not standing up to .357 loads. However, if I can count on a gun for 10,000 rounds, that good enough for me.
Now, I have a REAL stupid question. The 19 and 66, being K-Frames, have the exact same "feel" and dimensions as a Model 15, correct?
Now, I have a REAL stupid question. The 19 and 66, being K-Frames, have the exact same "feel" and dimensions as a Model 15, correct?
Juan Hunt Greer
New member
I have a late 60s vintage 19 with a 5 7/8" barrel and Patridge sights ( a production overrun, I think) which I bought new. It has had only about 4 or 5 hundred full factory loads through it, but about 18 or 20 thousand 38 wadcutters and at least that many dry-fires ( I used it to teach about 90 neophytes ) and the ONLY thing it has needed was a new firing pin bushing in the recoil shield ( all that dry-firing, I guess). I just works smoother and smoother.
crankshaft
paranoid,- darn right!
crankshaft
paranoid,- darn right!
Well, actually...the Model 19/66 will be "a little" more FRONTHEAVY than the Model 14. assuming the same barrel length. The reason, you ask? First, the ejector rod shroud on the 19/66 adds a wee bit of weight in the front...secondly, IIRC, the "Magnum" cylinder of the 19/66 is a wee bit longer than the cylinder of the Model 15, adding just a "lil' bit" MORE weight up front...everybody has their own "druthers", but I PREFER the "feel" of the 19/66 to that of the Model 15....FWIW....mikey357
With 4" bbls, 1985 Gun digest, model 15 34oz, model 19 35oz. One ounce difference.
I run around ten thousand rounds per gun average through my users. Back in the 60s and early 70s there was some pretty stout .357 ammo off the shelf at the hardware store.
I was selling some 148 gr to LE that was clockin a tad over 1400fps from 3" bbls. Now factory 125s that get 1400-1500 out of 6" bbl are considered full strength. Yet Winchester lists a 296 load behind 125gr that clocks 1800fps and is nearly 10,000 psi below nominal pressure.
Upshot is, I don't think any major manufacturer's off the shelf .357 ammo will damage a model 19 in good condition. Like anything else, if pushed to the limit constantly, the longevity will be diminished.
How weak is the 19....not at all in my book. My 70s -3 is still happy.
Sam....my favorite 9mm is the 9x32R
I run around ten thousand rounds per gun average through my users. Back in the 60s and early 70s there was some pretty stout .357 ammo off the shelf at the hardware store.
I was selling some 148 gr to LE that was clockin a tad over 1400fps from 3" bbls. Now factory 125s that get 1400-1500 out of 6" bbl are considered full strength. Yet Winchester lists a 296 load behind 125gr that clocks 1800fps and is nearly 10,000 psi below nominal pressure.
Upshot is, I don't think any major manufacturer's off the shelf .357 ammo will damage a model 19 in good condition. Like anything else, if pushed to the limit constantly, the longevity will be diminished.
How weak is the 19....not at all in my book. My 70s -3 is still happy.
Sam....my favorite 9mm is the 9x32R
Mike Irwin
Staff
I've put about 15,000 FT&B (full tilt & boogie) .357 Mag. loads through my Model 19 4", plus another couple thousand .38 Spl. loads.
It's pretty loose now.
It's pretty loose now.
Bought a new 19 in the 70s.It has right now about 40,000 rds shot through it.About 5,000 top end loads.The rest just plinking rds.I just ordered out a new hand and cylinder lock for it.Other then the timming and lockup a little loose it has handled all very well.When I replace the parts it will shoot as new again.I have a number of other handguns and this 19 is probably the most versital I have.Never part with it.
The Model 19 was first built in 1954 (more or less) as a smaller version of the N frame, or Model 27. At that time, the primary .357 Magnum load was a 158 grain lead SWC at about 1250 f/s.
Eventually, the top strap would stretch enough and the revolver would get "iffy". Spit lead, primers backing out, in serious cases, misfires.
The current "round dujour" is the 125 HP. It turns out the pressure curve of the lighter bullet is more abrupt; this wears on the frame more.
So, the Model 19 is now relatively more fragile. That's the reason for the "L" frame guns. The topstrap is heavier and therefore more resistant to stretching.
Still in all, the "K" frames just handle faster for self defense. The bigger guns are good for bigger bullets, and the littler guns are easier to hide. But the "K" is the ultimate fighting tool.
Eventually, the top strap would stretch enough and the revolver would get "iffy". Spit lead, primers backing out, in serious cases, misfires.
The current "round dujour" is the 125 HP. It turns out the pressure curve of the lighter bullet is more abrupt; this wears on the frame more.
So, the Model 19 is now relatively more fragile. That's the reason for the "L" frame guns. The topstrap is heavier and therefore more resistant to stretching.
Still in all, the "K" frames just handle faster for self defense. The bigger guns are good for bigger bullets, and the littler guns are easier to hide. But the "K" is the ultimate fighting tool.
Johnny Guest
Moderator in Memoriam
the Birth of the Combat Magnum
The late, great Bill Jordan wrote of the genesis of the S&W Model 19 in his fine book, No Second Place Winner, which was first published, I think, around 1970. When Bill first went into the Border Patrol, .357 magnums were built on what we now know as N-Frame S&Ws or the huge Colt New Service, with the occasional Colt Single Action Army being produced in that caliber.
USBP issue back then was Colt New Service in .38 Spl, and, I think, a few older guns in .45 Colt. There were a lot of private-purchase .357s carried, but the guns were HEAVYso they were mostly carried by firearms enthusiasts. Of course, they were popular because they could be shot with the issue practice ammo, .38 Spl wadcutters and the issue duy load, the old .38/44 High Speed load.
Inspector Jordan and some others on the USBP pistol team had the ear of some factory representatives at the various big Lew Enforcement and NRA matches, and began lobbying for a new product: NOT a .357 revolver which would handle .38 Spls for practice, but essentially a .38 Special revolver whoch could take .357 loads for duty.
Cutting this one short--Duty calls--
Best regards,
Johnny
The late, great Bill Jordan wrote of the genesis of the S&W Model 19 in his fine book, No Second Place Winner, which was first published, I think, around 1970. When Bill first went into the Border Patrol, .357 magnums were built on what we now know as N-Frame S&Ws or the huge Colt New Service, with the occasional Colt Single Action Army being produced in that caliber.
USBP issue back then was Colt New Service in .38 Spl, and, I think, a few older guns in .45 Colt. There were a lot of private-purchase .357s carried, but the guns were HEAVYso they were mostly carried by firearms enthusiasts. Of course, they were popular because they could be shot with the issue practice ammo, .38 Spl wadcutters and the issue duy load, the old .38/44 High Speed load.
Inspector Jordan and some others on the USBP pistol team had the ear of some factory representatives at the various big Lew Enforcement and NRA matches, and began lobbying for a new product: NOT a .357 revolver which would handle .38 Spls for practice, but essentially a .38 Special revolver whoch could take .357 loads for duty.
Cutting this one short--Duty calls--
Best regards,
Johnny