Just Blasted NRA

CassidyGT

New member
I just sent a letter blasing NRA for caving in on the Pennsylvania Deal. They will get no more of my money. It shall all go to the GOA, SAF and COA from now on. Organizations that are defending my RKBA!

I am sick of the NRA compromising. Are we talking about a Natural Right here or what!!!

Damn.

Thane - GOA SAF NRA(not for long) MCDL CAN
MD CAN OP
tbellomo@home.com
 
Hey, I'm as pro-Second Amendment as anyone, but I think you are way overreacting here. Are trigger locks the end of the freakin world? Sometimes I don't think people can see the forest for the trees.

Let's do what we can and go from there. The pendulum will start to swing back our way during this next election cycle. Gun control will be on the front burner and we will have a chance to get our message out. If we have to stick our finger in the dike to keep from getting drowned until then, so be it.

Joe
 
The NRA is not perfect and they do sometimes have to yield on one issue to prevent worse trouble. But they are the only real game in town. The other organizations you mention are fine, but they don't have the numbers or the money to exercise any real political clout.

Also, they are not membership organizations so they can't say to the politicians "we speak for 3 million members" like the NRA can. They don't know how much support they have, only how much money comes in. (This is a problem HCI has, also. They can't cite numbers.)

Even NRA membership is only 1/100 of the population, a good reason to stay in and recruit more, not a reason to give up.

Jim
 
Was the NFA of 1934 the end of the freaking world? Was GCA '68? What about '86? Maybe the Brady Act, maybe that was the end.

The NRA is not supposed to compromise our rights as guaranteed under the 2nd. This is what's known as a step backward. It is more gun control. When will the NRA leadership learn, when all our guns are gone?

You can call it "sticking your finger in the dyke" or "choosing our battles" it still means more gun control and more ground to try to recover.

NRA Life member

------------------
"In many ways we are treated quite like men." Erich Maria Remarque
 
It is foolish in the extreme to think that compromise in any way will help us. What has compromise gotten us so far?

"Tell them what they've won Johnny!!"

A whole sh!tcan full of new unconstitutional laws that infringe upon our rights.

Oh you say - trigger locks are not the end of the world. Oh yeah- well that is just what they want you to think. In Maryland that kind of thinking has now gotten us 'Smart Guns' being mandated by the State. When you compromise on ANYTHING to do with a Natural Right, then you have submitted to the premise that a right can be regulated and infringed.

If I was convinved that compromise would not lead to much more onerous laws, then that might be fine but I have seen in the last 30 years that compromise has gotten us no where except closer to being SLAVES.

You do what you want nralife, compromise until they pry the pellet gun from your cold dead fingers, but as for me - Give me Liberty or Give me Death.

Thane GOA SAF CAN MCDL NRA(not for long)
MD CAN OP
tbellomo@home.com

[This message has been edited by CassidyGT (edited December 07, 1999).]
 
What's this "compromise" word I keep hearing? The very meaning of the word is that each side neither gets all they want but each give up a little to reach a middle ground. In this continuing gun debate, our side's rights have been constantly eroded through incrementalism - one small step at a time.

Sure, GCA ~35, GCA 68, et al (& all the other 20K+ laws controlling firearms)hasn't really cost us all that much. Sure.

Your congress-critter is supposed to defend the Constitution and your rights, not eat 'em up based on some polling data. NRA should be out there with a "no compromise" policy from my standpoint.

"The tree of Liberty, from time to time, must be refreshed by the blood of patriots and tyrants."

'Course I'm just a new guy ;-)
 
Trigger locks may not, in themselves, be the end of the world. But they are close enough.

This--everything--is the end of the world. As gun owners, we are in the middle of the end of the world. We are experiencing misdirected sentiment, biased media coverage and consciously evil legislation at an alarmingly hyperaccelerated rate.

If a woman is raped, do we break every scratch, every bruise, every violation of dignity down individually and say "now, was that the end of the world?"

Don't get me wrong, I will continue to send money to the NRA, and I will continue to carry my membership card. It's the best gesture of solidarity we can make. But they will know my indignation, and I'm glad I kept that cheap black-and-yellow hat instead of sending it back. The bulk of my contributions, both monetary and personally activist, will go to organizations that won't go down even if they can't whup it.
 
I'd better not even get started here. I sent the NRA the check for the upgrade for myself and a membership for my wife yesterday. I guess in need to sit down tomorrow and send the same amount to The Second Amendment Foundation!
Hank
 
Let me clear up a few things. I am not for mandatory trigger locks. I am not for compromising our rights away piecemeal! I agree with what you guys are saying.

The NRA is only trying to look moderate to the people who we need on our side. We need every last voter that we can get on our side next November. The Democrats are playing the gun control card. They think that they have a winning issue. I think that they are shooting themselves in the foot. With gun control on the front burner at a national level, we will be able to get our message out to the undecided middle. The Democrats are stupid, because they had the leftist media on their side hiding the real facts about gun ownership, and now they have given us our opening, to spread our message to the largest crowd possible unfiltered by the press. We need tact and a good public image to appeal to the soccer moms. Yes, we need them on our side and we won't get them if we look like extremist hyperventilating about trigger locks. We all know that trigger locks won't do a darn thing to slow down someone bent on destruction, but the soccer moms don't know that, yet that is.

Sooner or later the Supreme Court is going to have to rule one way or the other on the true meaning of the Second Amendment. With the recent cases in Texas and California, which have opposing outcomes, the Supreme Court is going to have to take up this issue once and for all. At this point, short of taking up arms, this is the only way that we are going to beat the antigunners. The national press, most Democrats, and Hollywood are all against us. Right now, we can't get our word out to the masses except through talk radio and now the internet.

The next president will nominate perhaps three new Supreme Court justices. This is where our hope lies. The next election cycle will be one of the most pivotal of all of our lives. It will lay the foundation for what is to come. Three progun Supreme Court justices is all that we need to roll back the tide of 60 years of gun control. Think long and hard before you vote for a third party candidate who has no chance of winning.

Yes, right now, we can fight to stop trigger lock bills from passing, but remember this is just the opening act of what is to come. The fat lady has yet to sing!

Keep the faith!

Joe


Joe's Second Amendment Message Board
 
I recently wrote to the NRA-ILA and tasked them as to why we (the NRA) were not onboard with the SAF suit. The answer they sent me follows: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Quite simply, we are not sure this court case is the best tactic to counter the reckless lawsuits faced by the firearms industry. While we have been successful in promoting legislative reforms that will stop these suits, and usually without any help form the smaller pro-gun groups, our Office of General Counsel, which
is our staff of attorneys, is not convinced that the challenge is winnable. If it is, though, the SAF does not need our help with it, nor are we aware of GOA assisting with the suit.

The reason there are a number of pro-gun groups is that there are a number of opinions as to what tactic or tactics are best suited for defending our right to keep and bear arms. NRA remains the largest, most effective group (as indicated by the recent Fortune magazine article), but we certainly wish our allies the best of luck with their efforts. If they are successful, after all, then we all benefit.[/quote]That sounds like "we'll sit back and let someone else spend their money and bask in the victory if they win".

I wrote back to them the following: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Thank you for the reply. However, I am at complete odds with the stated position.

It is time that the NRA stop giving in (and in recent cases - volunteering) to more gun control measures. I am beginning to think that the NRA is not looking out for my (the common member)interests. It seems that the NRA has become a self sustaining cash cow to the benefit of only some of the members and directors. All that I have seen from Headquarters lately is infighting amongst the Directors vying for more internal power and "winks and nods" to Congress that the NRA will no oppose anti-gun legislation.

We (the NRA) must stop this soft pedaling nonsense and retake the lead in the defense of the Second Amendment and gun-ownership. If it requires another political battle to get the NRA back on track, ala Neal Knox, then so be it.[/quote]I am awaiting with bated breath their reply. I'll share it when and if it arrives.
 
Compromise = a "good first step".

The Brady Act was a "good first step".

The Crime Bill was a "good first step".

The "one gun a month" laws were a "good first step".

Trigger locks are a "good first step".

Limiting access to felons was a "good first step".

Limiting access to children was a "good first step".

The assault weapon ban was a "good first step".

Magazine bans were a "good first step".

Registration will be a "good first step".

Gun show legislation will be a "good first step".

There IS no second step in the minds of the gun grabbers; only the last step. What do you suppose that will be?

[This message has been edited by jimpeel (edited December 08, 1999).]
 
Make no mistake. "Common sense gun safety laws" or whatever the next catch phrase used
is only their next step in the overall goal to rid the US of private firearms ownership.

Whenever a government entity sues a firearm manufacturer (or attempts to enact legislation, etc. for that matter), they are using your tax dollars. When we have to countersue, we again use our hard-won monies. It's a two-fold dollar attack if nothing else.

The blood is in the water & they will never stop.

As far as educating the populace, the majority (& I include many of the gun-owners. please, no flames. I'm not including the astute in this forum :-) don't give a rat's butt about their rights and couldn't tell you 2 out of ten of the Bill of Rights.

Through the educational system & revisionist history, we have dumbed down the majority of kids in schools & the media keeps repeating the same mantra for the oldsters. Keep repeating the same lie often enough & it will become a fact in the minds of the people.

Every time the antis come out with a "13 children murdered by firearms a day" statement we attempt to counter with the facts. Doesn't matter. They pick out these catch phrases that appeal to the masses. And, it's extremely tough to counter
a "for the children" soundbite with just about anything we can say.

It's a propaganda war & we are losing and will continue to do so. The vast majority of the politicos will continue to vote the compromise route because they want to get reelected ... that's just their nature.

Again, blood in the water, sharks are cicling & the only thing that'll keep 'em from biting again & again is a bang-stick.
 
Again about the dollar thing. The Pres came out yesterday with some nonsense about suing gun manufacturers due to "fingerprint resistant" coatings on some guns. The spin was that you don't leave fingerprints on these guns. We all know that the coating was designed to be resistant to rust caused by fingerprints - just a better mousetrap for firearms finish - makes it more durable.

But, we get to pay for this idiot standing up there throwing out his drivel & to counter, we have to pay for ads (which 90% of outlets won't give us access to BTW).

The public takes the statement as fact & we can't counter effectively, if at all. Same type of crap as "cop killer bullets," "Saturday night specials," assault weapons," and the infamous "undetectable, ceramic guns."

Damn.
 
What is the biggest threat to gun owners right now? It is the lawsuits filed against gun manufacturers! This Pennsylvania bill will give us a way to block those suits in that state. Trigger locks or not, this is a good thing.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Bill would ban suits against gunmakers
Pa. municipalities could not sue for damages under a bill sent to Gov. Ridge. It would require trigger locks.

By Glen Justice

INQUIRER HARRISBURG BUREAU


HARRISBURG - A proposal to ban Philadelphia and other cities from suing gun manufacturers received final legislative approval yesterday and was sent to Gov. Ridge, who is expected to sign it into law in the coming weeks.
The bill would prevent Pennsylvania counties and municipalities from joining Boston, Chicago, Camden and 25 other cities that are moving to sue gunmakers to recover costs related to gun violence.

The proposal contains other provisions, including a requirement that all handguns be sold with trigger locks. Gun buyers who purchase the locks would receive immunity from civil litigation, although the law would not require them to actually use the locks.

Gov. Ridge, who opposes most gun control, called the bill a "very effective piece of legislation."

Because harsher restrictions on gun use had not made it to the final version of the bill, its passage was hailed as a victory for gun-rights advocates - and a bitter defeat for those looking for tighter controls.

"I wish that many young people who are now paralyzed or in the grave as the result of gun violence had the kind of protections we are giving gun manufacturers," said Rep. Curtis Thomas (D., Phila.).

Thirteen states prohibit lawsuits against gunmakers. Pennsylvania's bill was passed by the Senate Monday and cleared the House, 122-75, yesterday after a fierce floor debate.

Most of the action focused on the ban, which would prevent Philadelphia's mayor-elect, John F. Street, from fulfilling his campaign promise to join in the suits.

Lawmakers from Philadelphia and its suburbs were divided on the bill, with 26 supporting it and 34 opposing it. Three did not vote.

Opponents sprayed the bill with criticism and tried several unsuccessful parliamentary moves designed to derail it. They argued that it was unnecessary because no municipality has filed suit. They said that other industries did not enjoy the same protections. And they said that manufacturing standards could fall.

"We are sending a message to gun manufacturers that they can slack up a bit on the safety of firearms," said Rep. Lita Indzel Cohen (R., Montgomery).

Rep. Mark Cohen (D., Phila.) said: "A vote for this legislation is a vote to make it easier for people to be killed or seriously hurt by guns."

Advocates were equally tough, calling it a vote for the rights of sportsmen that the National Rifle Association fully supports.

"It's good public policy to protect legal businesses," said Rep. Thomas Gannon (R., Delaware).

Rep. Robert Godshall (R., Montgomery) noted that the gunmakers represent a $500 million industry in Pennsylvania that has been operating in the state for more than 100 years. He said litigation against the industry would set a bad precedent for others that make potentially dangerous products, whether they are baseball bats or fast food.

"The free market cannot survive much more of this litigation," Godshall said.

For his part, Ridge said his support was based on a belief that the right to sue the industry should rest with victims who were harmed by guns, noting that no person or class of people is prevented from suing by the bill.

"Municipalities may think they have cause, but ultimately, in my judgment, it resides with the individual who was directly harmed," he said.

He also noted that the state still had the right to sue, though no such effort has been announced.

The trigger-locks provision also was controversial, with both supporters and opponents calling it a small reform that will make little change.

Nationwide, trigger locks are one of the few gun-control efforts that have garnered widespread support, experts say. Seventeen states have safe-storage laws, five of which (including New Jersey) have trigger-lock laws.

Pennsylvania's trigger-lock provision does not apply to shotguns or rifles and would not require gun owners to use the locks once they leave the gun shop.

Because 90 percent of guns are now shipped by manufacturers with locks, the measure would affect only the few guns that do not already come with locks.

The bill also contains other measures, such as requiring anyone entering a courtroom statewide to check any weapon and making it a crime to own a gun with a serial number that has been removed.

Overall, many gun-control advocates were not happy with the bill. The House Common Sense Firearms Safety Caucus, a group of mostly Democrats formed earlier this year to push gun control, released a report card on the issue after yesterday's vote.

The caucus gave the legislature incompletes for reforms not yet completed and a "D" for trigger locks. Rep. Dwight Evans (D., Phila.), a member of the caucus, said that many gun-control measures were popular among voters and that the legislature ignored them at its own peril.

"It's contempt for the people of this state," he said. "It's like the General Assembly has its head in a hole, like an ostrich. They don't get the message."

Evans said the issue likely would surface in the elections next year, when all 203 House members face voters. With Republicans holding the House by just three seats, it could create a battleground.

For example, a Democratic challenger already has surfaced for House Majority Leader John Perzel (R., Phila.). Mark Chilutti, a victim of gun violence who is paralyzed, is making gun control a primary issue. Perzel, who controls the flow of legislation on the floor and helped engineer the Republican trigger-locks bill, wound up voting against it yesterday, but his spokesman said it had nothing to do with his opponent.

"He has questions about tying the hands of local governments," said Stephen Drachler.

In addition, many Democrats found themselves in an uncomfortable position earlier this year when trigger locks went before the House.

Democrats have long offered a host of gun-control measures, including a stronger trigger-locks bill. When Republicans put up a weaker Republican measure, Democrats could either vote for it, giving the GOP a political chit, or vote against it and risk being labeled as extremists.

"Once and for all, the issue will be dealt with in 2000," Evans said.



[This message has been edited by nralife (edited December 08, 1999).]
 
SAF files suit against 28 mayors and the Mayor's Conference, and the NRA is silent.

King William the Chickenhearted publicly announces his intention to extralegally drive a legitimate industry out of existence, and the NRA is silent.

Some yahoo proposes trigger locks, and the NRA is all over it.

Is the NRA incapable of taking on multiple issues? Can they only work in serial, not parallel?

FWIW, I am an NRA member. I'm also pissed as hell at their "compromising" attitude towards blatantly illegal acts by the ones who are supposed to uphold the law.

The NRA may have been effective 100 years ago, but they've wimped. Bigtime. Wayne L. has no intention of getting in the bannits' face, like SAF, but instead focuses on losing as little ground as possible.

News, Wayne: a 5-yard loss instead of 10 yards is still a loss!

------------------
"The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it."
-- John Hay, 1872
 
Coinneach

See the thread entitled--

This just in: Clinton Administration to File Class Action Suit against Gun Makers


to see the NRA press release about what Klinton has done. I know the NRA isn't perfect and I wish they would take a more "no compromise" position, but if we don't all hang together, most assuredly we will all hang seperately.

Joe
 
NRA caving is not good. But we sure as hell shouldn't abandon them now. Now is the time to get as active and noisy as we can.
 
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