Just a historical reminder of gun rights (references included)

RonC

New member
After watching the recent series on John Adams, I was curious about the thoughts and attitudes of the times on gun rights. I am sure you all have seen these quotes before, but a little reminder always helps.

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” (Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774-1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764) http://www.madisonbrigade.com/t_jefferson.htm

Famous Quote from Cesare Beccaria
"False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.

Can it be supposed that those who have the courage to violate the most sacred laws of humanity, the most important of the code, will respect the less important and arbitrary ones, which can be violated with ease and impunity, and which, if strictly obeyed, would put an end to personal liberty... and subject innocent persons to all the vexations that the guilty alone ought to suffer?

Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. They ought to be designated as laws not preventive but fearful of crimes, produced by the tumultuous impression of a few isolated facts, and not by thoughtful consideration of the inconveniences and advantages of a universal decree."
http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote/cesare_beccaria_quote_e215

Cesare Beccaria
(1735-1794) [Bonesana, Marchese di] Italian nobleman, criminologist, and penal reformer
Source: Dei delitti e delle pene, [On Crimes and Punishments] ch.38 (1764) Translation is as quoted by Thomas Jefferson in his _Commonplace Book_, 314 (G. Chinard ed. 1926), which was "the source book and repertory of Jefferson's ideas on government." Id. at 4.

Ron
 
It seems to me that back then the anti-gun sentiment was mostly an aspect of the Quaker religion. I wonder if anyone has done a study on this, gathered anti-gun quotes from the Quakers, and questioned if modern anti-gun sentiment is related to, or evolved from, this religious conviction?
 
Anti-gun quakers? Not exactly.

My father's heritage is Quaker, and while he never practiced that particular deonomination and his father (my grandfather) switched to being a methodist, he grew up in a semi-quaker environment with a lot of quaker relatives.

And while all of those quakers were pacifists, they were all also gun owners. Being a quaker doesn't make you a vegetarian, and hunting for meat was a common way to acquire meat.
 
Quaker home defense

An old story relates how a thief broke into a Quaker home one night, and in the process of taking the family silver was confronted by the homeowner, and his shotgun. The thief says "Thou canst not shoot me, for thou art a Quaker!" To which the Quaker replies, "Brother, I wouldst not wish harm upon thee for anything in the world, but thou art standing where I intend to shoot!"

The sack of silver hits the ground as the thief runs off.

Remember that while we protested against the English taxes, it was when they moved to sieze the arms and powder from Lexington and Concord that the fight started!
 
"Brother, I wouldst not wish harm upon thee for anything in the world, but thou art standing where I intend to shoot!"

Wow. This is a joke that I've heard told in my family since I was a little boy. Even the wording is nearly the same.

And yes ... it was told by Quakers.
 
Not "gun rights" at all...

The issue is not gun rights but the right to effective self-defense. At this time, firearms, particularly handguns, are the best means to this end.

Without that operative right, you have no rights other than those more powerful than you will allow.

"Arms" is a "term of art" that predates the invention of firearms in law and philosophy regarding this human right.

The animating concepts behind the 2nd Amendment will be valid as long as men do evil to other men. Which is to say, long after firearms are obsolete.
 
Quote:
"Brother, I wouldst not wish harm upon thee for anything in the world, but thou art standing where I intend to shoot!"
Wow. This is a joke that I've heard told in my family since I was a little boy. Even the wording is nearly the same.

And yes ... it was told by Quakers.

It was also spoke by Gary Cooper, portraying a Quaker, in 1956 in Friendly Persuasion.
 
The issue is not gun rights but the right to effective self-defense. At this time, firearms, particularly handguns, are the best means to this end.

Without that operative right, you have no rights other than those more powerful than you will allow.

"Arms" is a "term of art" that predates the invention of firearms in law and philosophy regarding this human right.

The animating concepts behind the 2nd Amendment will be valid as long as men do evil to other men. Which is to say, long after firearms are obsolete.

That is very interesting! Thank you for educating me on the terminology.

Ron
 
Back
Top