I recently bought a Judge 3" blued. I shot two 2 1/2 inch 000 buck 410 shells. One of them came apart in the cylinder. There was only 1 1/2 inches of shell left. The other round had a distinct line in the same place but stayed intact. I can see a raised line in all five cylinders (I assume to make the .45 and .410 both function). Anyone else seen this?
Judge 410 shell came apart
- Thread starter CoalJack
- Start date
does that pistol have a forcing cone midway down the barrel to handle .45 loads? 
Here's something you need to try. Take a steel rod or even a pencil eraser and see if there is a sharp shoulder there at that line. it's possible that the thing has a separate "chamber" cut for .45 with forcing cone, the chamber was cut, and the cone was never properly tapered. The fact that you see a "line" and not a taper seems to indicate this.
If you have a sharp shoulder of a few hundredths of an inch, it is perfectly logical that your shotshells would cut themselves off as they are expanded to fill the chamber and jammed against the shoulder.
I think that this may be your problem. the answer is to return it to taurus and they will ream the chamber to add cones, or replace it.
Here's something you need to try. Take a steel rod or even a pencil eraser and see if there is a sharp shoulder there at that line. it's possible that the thing has a separate "chamber" cut for .45 with forcing cone, the chamber was cut, and the cone was never properly tapered. The fact that you see a "line" and not a taper seems to indicate this.
If you have a sharp shoulder of a few hundredths of an inch, it is perfectly logical that your shotshells would cut themselves off as they are expanded to fill the chamber and jammed against the shoulder.
I think that this may be your problem. the answer is to return it to taurus and they will ream the chamber to add cones, or replace it.
Ammo I used is Federal 000 buck.
Brian, your explanation sounds good. I'll check the shoulder when I get home. It left a definite "ring" around the second round I fired. I've since bought some #6 shot and the Winchester PDX loads but have not tried them yet. Wonder if they will do the same thing.
Brian, your explanation sounds good. I'll check the shoulder when I get home. It left a definite "ring" around the second round I fired. I've since bought some #6 shot and the Winchester PDX loads but have not tried them yet. Wonder if they will do the same thing.
I don't see how you could possibly have an excess headspace problem in a rimmed shotshell in a revolver resulting in a classic case separation.
It doesn't sound to me as if they are being pulled apart, as would happen in a typcial headspace problem, it sounds to me as if they are being cut. High enough pressure, a sharp shoulder, weak or inflexible plastic, and you will have irresistable shear forces as the part of the shell on the larger side of the bore expands a few hundredths of an inch farther than the part in the narrower end of the bore.
It doesn't sound to me as if they are being pulled apart, as would happen in a typcial headspace problem, it sounds to me as if they are being cut. High enough pressure, a sharp shoulder, weak or inflexible plastic, and you will have irresistable shear forces as the part of the shell on the larger side of the bore expands a few hundredths of an inch farther than the part in the narrower end of the bore.
just took a look. .45 colt cartridge length is appr 1.3 inches in length. The forcing cone would be cut at appr 1.4 to 1.5 inches. the more I consider this, the more certain I am that there was an error reaming the cylinder. The machine was set up improperly, that cylinder missed the reaming station, the reamer was broken or badly adjusted, plenty of possibilities. Not going to use this as an opportunity to slam QC at taurus, but it's possible that a lot of these things go out with this same defect.
It could turn out to be a very serious problem, maybe. let a shotshell lose that sleeve and be followed with a .45 round, you will have a partially obstructed bore. Fire .45 rounds without a proper taper will shave so much lead and/or gilding metal off that you will undoubtedly encounter serious problems, the least of which will be big problems with scraping that cylinder clean.
It could turn out to be a very serious problem, maybe. let a shotshell lose that sleeve and be followed with a .45 round, you will have a partially obstructed bore. Fire .45 rounds without a proper taper will shave so much lead and/or gilding metal off that you will undoubtedly encounter serious problems, the least of which will be big problems with scraping that cylinder clean.
Judge 45/410
It caused by the chamber from the 45 colt. The 45 brass body is larger in diameter than the 410. Some jb bore paste should polish the sharp edges out. Look up the chamber drawings for the 45 & 410. You will see the difference in diameter & chamber. The chamber for the 45 runs into the 410 chamber. The 410 being smaller in diameter then the 45 brass. The 410 chamber then becomes the "throat" for the 45. But the "throat" is much larger than a standard 45 throat. The 45 bullet will rattle down the oversize throat on firing, resulting in poor accuracy. Sorry.
http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/index.cfm?page=CC
It caused by the chamber from the 45 colt. The 45 brass body is larger in diameter than the 410. Some jb bore paste should polish the sharp edges out. Look up the chamber drawings for the 45 & 410. You will see the difference in diameter & chamber. The chamber for the 45 runs into the 410 chamber. The 410 being smaller in diameter then the 45 brass. The 410 chamber then becomes the "throat" for the 45. But the "throat" is much larger than a standard 45 throat. The 45 bullet will rattle down the oversize throat on firing, resulting in poor accuracy. Sorry.
http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/index.cfm?page=CC
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can you give a photof the shells and the chambers?
and did you get the ammo from someone, or is it "right off the shelf, right off the delivery truck" ?
the location of the cutting, cutting is easy to id from cracking, sounds like someone was trying to do backwoods cut shells.
and did you get the ammo from someone, or is it "right off the shelf, right off the delivery truck" ?
the location of the cutting, cutting is easy to id from cracking, sounds like someone was trying to do backwoods cut shells.
Ok, I've shot several different loads through the Judge now, some Winchester PDX1's and some #6 shot. All had shallow indentions around the hull in the same location, but none of the came apart. Maybe the Federal 000 buck is too hot or the hulls are weaker. Don't know if this a big problem or not.
For the last decade or so, the Federal hulls have been made of some fairly brittle plactic. Of boxes of Fed. 2 1/2" shells fired in the last three months in my 410 shotgun, none of the hulls are sutiable for reloading. None, nada, zero, zilch, they all have splits that run from the lip down towards the brass that make them totally unsuitable for reloading.
If you have a ridge where you are seeing the seperations, I would conclude that the stress riser at that point is the cause of your failures. Personally, I would not do any modifications on that gun without first contacting Taurus and explaining the problem to them. Give them the specifics and let them have first option to correct the problem. Otherwise you will blow your warranty out the door and lose any recourse you have.
If you have a ridge where you are seeing the seperations, I would conclude that the stress riser at that point is the cause of your failures. Personally, I would not do any modifications on that gun without first contacting Taurus and explaining the problem to them. Give them the specifics and let them have first option to correct the problem. Otherwise you will blow your warranty out the door and lose any recourse you have.