chrisintexas
New member
Please explain what JSP bullets are and what is their intended use.
Thanks
Thanks
JSP bullets?
- Thread starter chrisintexas
- Start date
A soft-point bullet (SP), also known as a soft-nosed bullet, is a jacketed expanding bullet with a soft metal core enclosed by a stronger metal jacket left open at the forward tip. A soft-point bullet is intended to expand upon striking flesh to cause a wound diameter greater than the bullet diameter. Jacketed soft point is usually abbreviated JSP in the ammunition and reloading industry.
buck460XVR
New member
JSPs are generally used for hunting. While they expand, their expansion is more controlled and less likely to fragment, while giving deeper penetration than JHPs. This is a general statement, not all JSPs and JHPs are built the same. Just cause it has a hole in the end doesn't mean it has extreme expansion and just because it doesn't have a hole in the end doesn't mean it won't fragment. Jacket thickness and alloy has just as much to do with expansion as design.
carguychris
New member
In addition to having different expansion characteristics, JSP bullets tend to have better aerodynamics, particularly in pistol calibers where the bullet is relatively wide in relation to its length. JSPs are also more massive for a bullet with the same outer dimensions, which again tends to augment penetration.
On the flip side of the ballistics argument, one advantage of JHP bullets is that the hollow cavity at the front shifts the bullet's center of mass towards the rear, which promotes stability at long range. This is why many modern match rifle bullets are JHP.
On the flip side of the ballistics argument, one advantage of JHP bullets is that the hollow cavity at the front shifts the bullet's center of mass towards the rear, which promotes stability at long range. This is why many modern match rifle bullets are JHP.
JSP's are common in some calibers like .357 Mag...as target ammo ...I see them all the time in MagTech ..as an example .../ in fact I also reload a 158gr JSP as well in .357 Mag and in .38 spl ( bullets are from Montana Gold )...
So for me, I consider the 158 gr JSP in .357 Mag...a general use cartridge. I shoot about 6,000 - 8,000 of them a year at my local range.
So for me, I consider the 158 gr JSP in .357 Mag...a general use cartridge. I shoot about 6,000 - 8,000 of them a year at my local range.
NoSecondBest
New member
Here's a good example of the difference between JSP and JHP in Hornady's XTP bullet line for .357 caliber. I've shot quite a few deer with the .357mag using a number of different handguns and a few with .357mag rifles. Very rarely does the JHP exit the deer when shot at any distance or at any angle. Simply changing to the JSP has permitted over half the hits to exit the animal due to deeper penetration. Both bullets work well and I've never lost a single deer with either bullet in .357mag. The JHP opens up quite a bit in a very short distance. The JSP will also open up quite a bit, but it needs to go further to do so. That's an apples vs apples comparison. I'm not sure one is any better than the other based on a large sample size (50+). I think increased muzzle velocity could give the nod to the JSP, especially in larger game.
JSP bullets are also sometimes used by police agencies in an attempt to reduce the danger of ricochet when JHP bullets are unavailable or "politically incorrect" I've shot Hirteberger 9mm 100 gr JSP that I suspect was made for this very purpose.
You see, when a JSP bullet hits something hard like cement or metal at an oblique angle, the soft nose is more likely to "bite in" and deform rather than ricochet like a FMJ (especially one with a round or pointed nose) is likely to.
You see, when a JSP bullet hits something hard like cement or metal at an oblique angle, the soft nose is more likely to "bite in" and deform rather than ricochet like a FMJ (especially one with a round or pointed nose) is likely to.
What increased velocity? A 158gr bullet is a 158gr bullet. Now, if you are talking about the rounder nose of a JSP giving it a slightly higher retention of velocity, at extreme range, you can measure it, but I believe that the difference is essentially insignificant.
One other advantage to the JSP not yet mentioned is that a JSP of a certain design may feed better in a semi auto than some designs of JHP.
This is particularly important when shooting older guns, designed before JHPs were commonly loaded. Like the WWII milsurps, and similar era designs.
New shooters today have no idea how lucky they are to have so much available. There was a time, a long time when the only ammo for semi autos was FMJ. Nothing else in semi auto cartridges came from the ammo makers, except some target ammo, and some of that was FJM SWC.
Handloaders could get JHP and JSP bullets though. But with the designs available, many semi autos just wouldn't feed HP ammo without the attention of a good gunsmith, and sometimes not even then.
If you could find a JSP that would feed in your 1911A1, Luger, P.38, or Hi Power when hollow points wouldn't, you were still a long way ahead of FMJ ammo.
Some JSPs wouldn't feed all that well in some guns, either, all depending on the gun, and the nose profile of the bullet, how much lead exposed, where, etc.
Modern designs are made from the start to feed JHP ammo, at least in the more common nose profiles, and its expected by the customers. That wasn't always the case.
NoSecondBest
New member
Yes, that's correct. I meant that by driving the JSP bullet to an increased velocity (over the JHP) it would perform better by penetrating deeper while still expanding. The JHP opens too quickly when driven at increasingly higher velocities. I was referring to "controlled expansion" of the JSP over the JHP.
buck460XVR
New member
Hornady does not offer a 158gr JSP in their XTP line in .357 caliber. They do offer a a 158gr XTP-FP, which still is a HP, but designed for higher velocities and deeper penetration than their standard XTP-HP. It differs from a true JSP because it has no exposed lead. It is my preferred bullet for hunting deer with my .357 carbine.
To add to the confusion some companies offer a SJHP..........
"What increased velocity? A 158gr bullet is a 158gr bullet."
Well, not exactly. Velocity is important and possibly the MOST important factor. Unless specifically designed to expand at a low velocity, many JSP bullets simply rivet and pretend to be a FMJ.
For instance, a 158 JSP bullet that expands well at velocities delivered by a 6" 357 magnum is no better than FMJ at the velocity delivered by a 2" 38SP.
Well, not exactly. Velocity is important and possibly the MOST important factor. Unless specifically designed to expand at a low velocity, many JSP bullets simply rivet and pretend to be a FMJ.
For instance, a 158 JSP bullet that expands well at velocities delivered by a 6" 357 magnum is no better than FMJ at the velocity delivered by a 2" 38SP.
NoSecondBest
New member
I've shot quite a few deer with Hornday XTP bullets in 357mag. The difference in performance between the XTP JSP and the XTP JHP is quite a bit at the same velocity. The JHP expands rapidly and the JSP penetrates deeper with a bit less expansion. To make this answer simpler, using these two bullets on a deer, and hitting them in the same spot at the same distance, the JSP will give more penetration. It's not that difficult to understand and it doesn't require telling anyone how to make a watch if they ask you what time it is. Apples vs Apples applies to using Hornady XTP bullets in this example. Both are excellent on deer by the way. Hitting where you're aiming in a hanggun......that's a different story.
buck460XVR
New member
Again.....there is no such thing as a XTP-JSP in .38/.357. I assume this is what you are referring to as their JSP.....no exposed lead and a hollow point.
https://www.hornady.com/bullets/handgun/38-cal-357-158-gr-fp-xtp#!/
Here is a pic both of Hornady's 158 gr offerings for .38/357. Both look basically identical. If you look close, you see the XTP-FP on the right has a slightly smaller HP cavity....but you have to look close. This is what I meant in my first post about jacket thickness, alloy and design being just as important as a hole in the tip when it comes to expansion. I'm not trying to be a jerk about this, only trying not to confuse the OP even more. If he does not really know the difference between a JSP and a JHP now, telling him another bullet with a HP without an exposed lead tip is still called a JSP, will probably confuse him more. Again, what determines a JSP is generally a exposed soft tip, that, while aiding to expansion, is also encased in a thick jacket to avoid extreme expansion and fragmentation. Still even more confusing are JSPs with a hollow point.....and then calling bullets FMJ even when the jacket does not extend over the base of the bullet.
Attachments
That's my experience as well. That Flat Point XTP acts like a soft point on deer (deeper penetration at carbine speeds).
Remington's 158 gr SP and JHP's react similarly...the HP version opening faster than the SP at identical velocities.
I've used both Remington SP's and JHP"s as well as Hornady XTP's of both FP and HP construction and can see no difference at carbine velocities.
For handgun use, I choose the JHP's from both makes for quick expansion in my 4" Smith M-19 & 3" Smith M-60. I load for 1200 fps using those bullets and have had no problems with them failing to expand in water, water filled plastic jugs, and in several raccoons and opossums shot here on the farm. I also finished one deer, wounded by a guest during this past season and found that expansion was more than adequate...8" passing through the upper neck, breaking a part of the spine and exiting the front of the throat. Muzzle velocity was ~1200 fps from my M-19 and the deer was shot at ~20 yds.
HTH's Rod
chrisintexas
New member
Federal Premium vital-shok 10mm 180 grain trophy bonded JSP
The maker says its good on hogs, deer and bears.
So this JSP will also penetrate and kill a bear?
The maker says its good on hogs, deer and bears.
So this JSP will also penetrate and kill a bear?
What kind of bear? small black bear? Those things unless I am mistaken have vital areas very similar to a big deer. They do have a lot of fat, which is pretty much invisible to bullets, so you can really just call it a wash. SMALL black bear. It would also be about the same as hitting a sizeable hog in the vitals.
I'm of the thought that the 10 mm auto in a soft point 180 would be okay for any of the three in a broadside shot, but I think that it's going to be the bottom tier of what I would want to be shooting them with. Maybe I'm wrong on whether the ten is an appropriate round for that, but take my word for it, this federal round is probably the best 10 mm round for that purpose.
I'm of the thought that the 10 mm auto in a soft point 180 would be okay for any of the three in a broadside shot, but I think that it's going to be the bottom tier of what I would want to be shooting them with. Maybe I'm wrong on whether the ten is an appropriate round for that, but take my word for it, this federal round is probably the best 10 mm round for that purpose.
When hiking out near where I live I carry .40 Buffalo Bore 200 gr HC-FN in a Beretta PX4. If I go into Shoshone/Custer National forests I will carry a .44 mag with Cor-bon 320 gr HC-FN.
And regardless of where, a large can of bear spray. And yes, it works, I have used two cans on grizzlies and never had to use a gun.
And regardless of where, a large can of bear spray. And yes, it works, I have used two cans on grizzlies and never had to use a gun.