Josh Sugarmann NYT editorial opinion

jimpeel

New member
Perhaps some of you would like to attempt the exercise in frustration of trying to get an opposing opinion printed.

Good luck.

The New York Times

November 4, 1999

Laws That Can't Stop a Bullet

By JOSH SUGARMAN

WASHINGTON -- In the past two days, back-to-back attacks in Honolulu and
Seattle have added new episodes to an ongoing American drama: everyday
scenes of work or leisure suddenly transformed into carnage by killers
who open fire with handguns. We recoil in horror and search for
explanations, but we never face up to the obvious preventive measure: a
ban on the handy killing machines that make the crimes so easy.

There have always been workplace pressures, shunned teenagers who
dreamed of revenge and quiet neighbors who went berserk. What is new in
the past 30 years is a deluge of high-powered, high-capacity handguns
being marketed widely to consumers. These are the weapons that spray
into crowds and cut people down in groups before the intended victims
can even react.

Most gun-control groups -- and politicians who take up their cause --are
too timid to champion a forthright handgun ban like those in Britain and
Japan, offering instead a weak assortment of regulatory doodads like
requiring "smart" guns and new variations on licensing and registration.
The role these groups and politicians play as enablers is even more
disappointing than the predictable loud protests to any sort of
regulation from the shrinking minority who own guns -- one in four who
own any
gun at all and one in six who own a handgun.

Gun-control groups have squandered vast reservoirs of popular energy in
favor of ending the violence. They also find themselves increasingly
defending the ineffective: why, the pro-gun faction reasonably asks,
didn't some of the nation's toughest laws on gun licensing and
registration prevent the carnage in Hawaii?

The man apprehended in Honolulu owned guns legally despite Hawaii's
hurdles. Licensing and registration may slow down gun trafficking and
provide useful tools for after-the-fact criminal investigation. But they
can't screen out the killer who conceals a murderous intent or arrives
at it later; nor can they guarantee that a gun won't end up with someone
other than the legal owner.

The flaw in "smart" guns, with devices that allow only so-called
"authorized users" to fire them, is that the vast majority of death and
injury is caused by the people the guns would be programmed to recognize
as authorized: from people who commit suicide to angry spouses to
criminals who will simply get their smart guns from organized
traffickers.

Another much vaunted control device, trigger locks, can reduce deaths
and injuries only at the margins; hundreds of children might be saved,
but adults who intend to kill would still be free to do so.

The public is way ahead of the politicians in understanding that
incremental regulation won't control handgun violence. Polls show that
in the past year up to half of Americans have supported a ban on
handguns.

A gun-control movement worthy of the name would insist that President
Clinton move beyond his proposals for controls -- such as expanding
background checks at gun shows and stopping the import of high-capacity
magazines -- and immediately call on Congress to pass far-reaching
industry regulation like the Firearms Safety and Consumer Protection Act
introduced by Senator Robert Torricelli, Democrat of New Jersey, and
Representative Patrick Kennedy, Democrat of Rhode Island. Their measure
would give the Treasury Department health and safety authority over the
gun industry, and any rational regulator with that authority would ban
handguns.

Real gun control will take courage. In the long run, half-measures and
compromises only sacrifice lives.

Josh Sugarmann is executive director of the Violence Policy Center.

Copyright 1999 The New York Times Company
 
But, Jim; This is delightful: Every time someone claims that gun control works, you can point to this column. The head of the biggest gun control organization in the country admits gun control doesn't work!

And every time they claim that they don't want to ban guns, you can point to this column; The head of the biggest gun control organization in the country admits that that is EXACTLY what he wants to do!

The mask is off, in other words.

------------------
Sic semper tyranus!
 
"The mask is off."

Shivers. That reminds me of a scene from "The King In Yellow:"

Camilla (to stranger): "You, sir, should unmask."
Stranger: "Indeed?"
Casilda: "Indeed it's time. We have all laid aside disguise but you."
Stranger: "I wear no mask."
Casilda (terrified, aside to Camilla): "No mask?! No mask!"

"The King In Yellow," Act 2 Scene I


------------------
"The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question.." Article 11, Section 13, CO state constitution.
 
Add this gem to the database of "Replies to Antis Who Claim That We Only Want Reasonable Restrictions, not a Ban".
 
Of course this is not the first time he has espoused this viewpoint openly.


Washington Monthly, June 1987

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The NRA is right; but we still need to ban handguns.

Josh Sugarmann


THE NRA IS RIGHT

One tenet of the National Rifle Association's faith has always been that
handgun controls do little to stop criminals from obtaining handguns. For
once, the NRA is right and America's leading handgun control organization is
wrong. Criminals don't buy handguns in gun stores. That's why they're
criminals. But it isn't criminals who are killing most of the 20,000 to
22,000 people who die from handguns each year.

We are.

This is an ugly truth for a country that thinks of handgun violence as a
"crime' issue and believes that it's somehow possible to separate "good'
handguns (those in our hands for self-defense) from "bad' handguns (those in
the hands of criminals).

Contrary to popular perception, the most prevalent form of handgun death in
America isn't murder but suicide. Of the handgun deaths that occur each year,
approximately 12,000 are suicides. An additional 1,000 fatalities are
accidents. And of the 9,000 handgun deaths classified as murders, most are
not caused by predatory strangers. Handgun violence is usually the result of
people being angry, drunk, careless, or depressed --who just happen to have a
handgun around. In all, fewer than 10 percent of handgun deaths are
felony-related.

Though handgun availability is not a crime issue, it does represent a major
public health threat. Handguns are the number one weapon for both murder and
suicide and are second only to auto accidents as the leading cause of death
due to injury. Of course there are other ways of committing suicide or crimes
of passion. But no means is more lethal, effective, or handy. That's why the
NRA is ultimately wrong. As several public health organizations have noted,
the best way to curb a public health problem is through prevention--in this
case, the banning of all handguns from civilian hands.

The enemy is us

For most who attempt suicide, the will to die lasts only briefly. Only one out
of every ten people attempting suicide is going to kill himself no matter
what. The success or failure of an attempt depends primarily on the lethality
of the means. Pills, razor blades, and gas aren't guaranteed killers, and
they take time. Handguns, however, lend themselves well to spontaneity.
Consider that although women try to kill themselves four times as often as
men, men succeed three to four times as often. For one reason: women use
pills or less lethal means; men use handguns. This balance is shifting,
however, as more women own or have access to handguns. Between 1970 and 1978
the suicide rate for young women rose 50 percent, primarily due to increased
use of handguns.

Of course, there is no way to lock society's cupboard and prevent every
distraught soul from injuring him or herself. Still, there are ways we can
promote public safety without becoming a nation of nannies. England, for
instance, curbed suicide by replacing its most common means of committing
suicide--coal stove gas--with less toxic natural gas. Fifteen years after the
switch, studies found that suicide rates had dropped and remained low, even
though the number of suicide attempts had increased. "High suicide rates seem
to occur where highly lethal suicidal methods are not only available, but also
where they are culturally acceptable,' writes Dr. Robert Markush of the
University of Alabama, who has studied the use of handguns in suicide.

Most murders aren't crime-related, but are the result of arguments between
friends and among families. In 1985, 59 percent of all murders were committed
by people known to the victim. Only 15 percent were committed by strangers,
and only 18 percent were the result of felonious activity. As the FBI admits
every year in its Uniform Crime Reports, "murder is a societal problem over
which law enforcement has little or no control.' The FBI doesn't publish
separate statistics on who's killing whom with handguns, but it is assumed
that what is true of all murders is true of handgun murders.

Controlling the vector

Recognizing the eliminating a disease requires prevention, not treatment,
health professionals have been in the forefront of those calling for a
national ban on handguns. In 1981, the Surgeon General's Select Panel for the
Promotion of Child Health traced the "epidemic of deaths and injuries among
children and youth' to handguns, and called for "nothing short of a total
ban.' It is estimated that on average, one child dies from handgun wounds
each day. Between 1961 and 1981, according to the American Association of
Suicidology, the suicide rate for 15- to 24-year-olds increased 150 percent.
The report linked the rise in murders and suicides among the young to the
increased use of firearms--primarily handguns. In a 1985 report, the Surgeon
General's Workshop on Violence and Public Health recommended "a complete and
universal ban on the sale, manufacture, importation, and possession of
handguns (except for authorized police and military personnel).'

Not surprisingly, the American Public Health Association, the American
Association of Suicidology, and the American Psychiatric Association, are
three of the 31 national organizations that are members of National Coalition
to Ban Handguns (NCBH).

Comparing the relationship between handguns and violence to mosquitos and
malaria, Stephen P. Teret, co-director of the Johns Hopkins Injury Prevention
Center, says, "As public health professionals, if we are faced with a disease
that is carried by some type of vehicle/vector like a mosquito, our initial
response would be to control the vector. There's no reason why if the
vehicle/vector is a handgun, we should not be interested in controlling the
handgun.'

The NRA refers to handgun suicides, accidental killings, and murders by
acquaintances as "the price of freedom.' It believes that handguns right
enough wrongs, stop enough crimes, and kill enough criminals to justify these
deaths. But even the NRA has admitted that there is no "adequate measure that
more lives are saved by arms in good hands than are lost by arms in evil
hands.' Again, the NRA is right.

A 1985 NCBH study found that a handgun is 118 times more likely to be used in a
suicide, murder, or fatal accident than to kill a criminal. Between 1981 and
1983, nearly 69,000 Americans lost their lives to handguns. During that same
period there were only 583 justifiable homicides reported to the FBI, in which
someone used a handgun to kill a stranger--a burglar, rapist, or other
criminal. In 1982, 19 states reported to the FBI that not once did a private
citizen use a handgun to kill a criminal. Five states reported that more than
130 citizens were murdered with handguns for each time a handgun was
justifiably used to kill a criminal. In no state did the number of
self-defense homicides approach the murder toll. Last year, a study published
in the New England Journal of Medicine analyzing gun use in the home over a
six-year period in the Seattle, Washington area, found that for every time a
firearm was used to kill an intruder in self-defense, 198 lives ended in
murders, suicides, or accidents. Handguns were used in more than 70 percent
of those deaths.

Although handguns are rarely used to kill criminals, an obvious question
remains: How often are they used merely to wound or scare away intruders? No
reliable statistics are available, but most police officials agree that in a
criminal confrontation on the street, the handgun-toting civilian is far more
likely to be killed or lose his handgun to a criminal than successfully use
the weapon in self-defense. "Beyond any doubt, thousands more lives are lost
every year because of the proliferation of handguns than are saved,' says
Joseph McNamara, chief of police of San Jose, who has also been police chief
in Kansas City, a beat cop in Harlem, and is the author of a book on defense
against violent crime. Moreover, most burglaries occur when homes are vacant,
so the handgun in the drawer is no deterrent. (It would also probably be the
first item stolen.)

Faced with facts like these, anti-control advocates often turn to the argument
of last resort: the Second Amendment. But the historic 1981 Morton Grove,
Illinois, ban on handgun sale and possession exploded that rationale. In
1983, the U.S. Supreme Court let stand a lower court ruling that stated,
"Because the possession of handguns is not part of the right to keep and bear
arms, [the Morton Grove ordinance] does not violate the Second Amendment.'

Criminal equivocation

Unfortunately, powerful as the NRA is, it has received additional help from the
leading handgun control group. Handgun Control Inc. (HCI) has helped the
handgun lobby by setting up the perfect strawman for the NRA to shoot down.
"Keep handguns out of the wrong hands,' HCI says. "By making it more
difficult for criminals, drug addicts, etc., to get handguns, and by ensuring
that law-abiding citizens know how to maintain their handguns, we can reduce
handgun violence,' it promises. Like those in the NRA, HCI chairman Nelson T.
"Pete' Shields "firmly believe(s) in the right of law-abiding citizens to
possess handguns . . . for legitimate purposes.'

In its attempt to paint handgun violence solely as a crime issue, HCI goes so
far as to sometimes ignore the weapon's non-crime death tally. In its most
recent poster comparing the handgun murder toll in the U.S. with that of
nations with strict handgun laws, HCI states: "In 1983, handguns killed 35
people in Japan, 8 in Great Britain, 27 in Switzerland, 6 in Canada, 7 in
Sweden, 10 in Australia, and 9,014 in the United States.' Handguns killed a
lot more than that in the United States. About 13,000 suicides and accidents
more.

HCI endorses a ban only on short-barrelled handguns (the preferred weapon of
criminals). It advocates mandatory safety training, a waiting period during
which a background check can be run on a purchaser, and a license to carry a
handgun, with mandatory sentencing for violators. It also endorses mandatory
sentencing for the use of a handgun in a crime. According to HCI
communications director Barbara Lautman, together these measures would "attack
pretty much the heart of the problem.'

HCI appears to have arrived at its crime focus by taking polls. In his 1981
book, Guns Don't Die--People Do, Shields points out that the majority of
Americans don't favor a ban on handguns. "What they do want, however, is a
set of strict laws to control the easy access to handguns by the criminal and
the violence prone--as long as those controls don't jeopardize the perceived
right of law-abiding citizens to buy and own handguns for self defense
[italics his].' Shields admits "this is not based on any naive hope that
criminals will obey such laws. Rather, it is based on the willingness of the
rest of us to be responsible and accountable citizens, and the knowledge that
to the degree we are, we make it more difficult for the criminal to get a
handgun.' This wasn't always HCI's stand. Founded in 1974 as the National
Council to Control Handguns, HCI originally called a ban on private handgun
possession the "most effective' solution to reducing violent crime rapidly and
was at one time a member of NCBH. Michael Beard, president of NCBH, maintains
that HCI's focus on crime "started with a public relations concern. Some
people in the movement felt Americans were worried about crime, and that was
one way to approach the problem. That's the problem when you use public
opinion polls to tell you what your position's going to be. And I think a lot
of the handgun control movement has looked at whatever's hot at the time and
tried to latch onto that, rather than sticking to the basic message that there
is a relationship between the availability of handguns and the handgun
violence in our society . . .. Ultimately, nothing short of taking the
product off the market is really going to have an effect on the problem.'

HCI's cops and robbers emphasis has been endlessly frustrating to many in the
anti-handgun movement. HCI would offer handgun control as a solution to
crime, and the NRA would effectively rebut their arguments with the
commonsensical observation that criminals are not likely to obey such laws. I
can't help but think that HCI's refusal to abandon the crime argument has
harmed the long term progress of the movement.

Saturated dresser drawers

In a nation with 40 million handguns--where anyone who wants one can get
one--it's time to face a chilling fact. We're way past the point where
registration, licensing, safety training, waiting periods, or mandatory
sentencing are going to have much effect. Each of these measures may save some
lives or help catch a few criminals, but none--by itself or taken
together--will stop the vast majority of handgun suicides or murders. A
"controlled' handgun kills just as effectively as an "uncontrolled' one.

Most control recommendations merely perpetuate the myth that with proper care a
handgun can be as safe a tool as any other. Nothing could be further from the
truth. A handgun is not a blender.

Those advocating a step-by-step process insist that a ban would be too radical
and therefore unacceptable to Congress and the public. A hardcore 40 percent
of the American public has always endorsed banning handguns. Many will also
undoubtedly argue that any control measure--no matter how ill-conceived or
ineffective --would be a good first step. But after more than a decade, the
other foot hasn't followed.

In other areas of firearms control there has been increasing recognition that
bans are the most effective solution. The only two federal measures passed
since the Gun Control Act of 1968 have been bans. In each case, the reasoning
was simple: the harm done by these objects outweighed any possible benefit
they brought to society. In 1986, Congress banned certain types of
armor-piercing "cop-killer' bullets. There was also a silver lining to last
year's NRA-McClure-Volkmer handgun "decontrol' bill, which weakened the
already lax Gun Control Act of 1968, making it legal, for instance, for people
to transport unloaded, "not readily accessible' handguns interstate. A
last-minute amendment added by pro-control forces banned the future production
and sale of machine guns for civilian use.

Unfortunately, no law has addressed the major public health problem. Few
suicides, accidental killings, or acquaintance murders are the result of
cop-killer bullets or machine guns.

Outlawing handguns would in no way be a panacea. Even if handgun production
stopped tomorrow, millions would remain in the dresser drawers of America's
bedrooms--and many of them would probably stay there. Contrary to NRA
fantasies, black-booted fascists would not be kicking down doors searching for
handguns. Moreover, the absolute last segment of society to be affected by
any measure would be criminals. The black market that has fed off the legal
sale of handguns would continue for a long while. But by ending new handgun
production, the availability of illegal handguns can only decrease.

Of course, someone who truly wants to kill himself can find another way. A
handgun ban would not affect millions of rifles and shotguns. But experience
shows that no weapon provides the combination of lethality and convenience
that a handgun does. Handguns represent only 30 percent of all the guns out
there but are responsible for 90 percent of firearms misuse. Most people who
commit suicide with a firearm use a handgun. At minimum, a handgun ban would
prevent the escalation of killings in segments of society that have not yet
been saturated by handgun manufacturers. Further increases in suicides among
women, for example, might be curtailed.

But the final solution lies in changing the way handguns and handgun violence
are viewed by society. Public health campaigns have changed the way Americans
look at cigarette smoking and drunk driving and can do the same for handguns.

For the past 12 years, many in the handgun control movement have confined their
debate to what the public supposedly wants and expects to hear--not to
reality. The handgun must be seen for what it is, not what we'd like it to
be.
 
Of course sugarman has also been a busy little beaver in inventing make-believe weapons and terms of art

This from:
http://www.netside.com/~lcoble/password/2d_amend.html

Posted as "Treatise on "assault weapons""

INDEPENDENCE ISSUE PAPER

No. 12-91 Independence Instutute; 14142 Denver West Parkway #101;
Golden, CO 80401; (303) 279-6536

October 10, 1991

THE "ASSAULT WEAPON" PANIC:
"POLITICAL CORRECTNESS" TAKES AIM
AT THE CONSTITUTION

By Eric C. Morgan and David B. Kopel

C. The Gun Prohibition Lobby Has Carefully Exploited and Created Public
Confusion.

Not everyone is confused. In the fall of 1988, Josh Sugarmann,
formerly of the National Coalition to Ban Handguns, and presently
head of his own organization, the Violence Policy Center, authored a
strategy memo for the gun prohibition movement. One of the most
technically knowledgeable persons in the gun prohibition movement,
Sugarmann had earlier earned distinction as the father of the
"plastic gun" controversy.


In the 1988 memo, Sugarmann observed that the handgun-ban issue
was considered old news by the media, and there was little realistic
possibility of enacting handgun bans in the immediate future. In
contrast, suggested Sugarmann, the "assault weapon" issue could
allow the gun prohibition movement to open a massive attack on a new
front. Sugarmann noted that public misunderstanding over the nature
of semiautomatics would play directly into the hands of the gun
prohibition movement:

The semiautomatic weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the
public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus
semiautomatic assault weapons -- anything that looks like a machine
gun is assumed to be a machine gun -- can only increase that chance
of public support for restrictions on these weapons.
 
He's using the old lie that murderers are just like normal people. He choses to ignore the fact that drug addicts, alcholics, wife-beaters and gangbangers, which contribute "more than a little" to our murder rate are not normal, average people. Of course the majority of adult murderers have criminal records.

Interestingly, he points out that most burglaries do not occur when a person is home as evidence that handguns are useless in preventing them. In fact, why do the burglars chose to steal from unoccupied dwellings? Considered England, with a much higher rate of home invasions with the dwellers still inside- and the subsequent danger to the occupants. Our high rate of gun ownership is the reason crooks often choose to avoid confrontations. After all, a burgler in the USA is just as likely to be shot as go to jail....

He is also wrong that handguns are the most lethal method of murder. Perhaps the most handy and stereotyped, but shotguns and rifles- "sporting guns"- are considerably more lethal. I have read that 30% of those shot by handguns die, compared to 70% of those shot by long guns. Let's not forget that the DoJ's prison poll said that about 80% of criminals would use long guns if they couldn't get a handgun.

"Most murders aren't crime-related, but are the result of arguments between friends and among families." Of course, what he neglects to mention is that an addict murdering his pusher, a john killing a protitute, a robber killing a taxi driver, a wife beater strangling his wife after years of abuse, are all included in the "friends-n-family" murders...basically anyone who you're come in contact with is a "friend" for his purposes. It does make sense in a way- you need to know someone to hate their guts enough to kill them right? However, it's ludicrious that to assert that most of these murders are between "friends" who would be "friends" still were it not for that evil handgun, just tempting the perp into turning a "friendly" argument into a murder.

Interesting about the English supposedly lowering their suicide rate by switching to less deadly natural gas, I've never before heard anyone try and cite facts to show gun control will lower suicide. Rebuttal: Countries such as a Japan, with incredibly restritive laws, have a much, much, much higher suicide rate than we do. Societial factors cause suicide, not guns. Sucidial people may buy guns to blow their brains out, but merely owning a gun doesn't make one suicidal. The author ignored a vital point in restricting the discussion to handguns. He ignored Hemmingway and others, and did not note the fact that one can swallow the barrel of a "sporting gun" just as point a handgun to your head. Rifles and shotguns are also effective for suicide, and of course, are more powerful and thus more lethal. Ammo capactiy, and "semi-auto" make absolutely no difference. So in order to truely lower gun suicides, presumably all guns, not just handguns, would have to be banned. Also, countries like Canada and the UK apparently have lowered their firearms murder rate, but increased it proportionately by other methods- with no total decrease.

"in a criminal confrontation on the street, the handgun-toting civilian is far more likely to be killed or lose his handgun to a criminal than successfully use the weapon in self-defense." I'm sure this comes as news to most of us. He evidently wishes to ignore the latest studies indicating enourmous amount of use for self-defense (though apparently it's extremely hard to pin it down to an exact number- 800,000-2,000,000???).

So there's no such thing as "good" handguns and "bad" handguns, they are all bad? Including, one would have to conclude, the ones on policemen's belts. Especially relevant when one considers cops mistakenly kill a higher proportion of innocents than armed "defenders" do.
 
When I read tripe like this, I really have to wonder how far from our primitive ancestors we've progressed.
All the time, money and rhetoric. The wailing, moaning and posturing these folks have to go through to get a law passed. Only instead of a simple piece of legislation, it seems to take on the aspect of a magical spell to them.
If we ban handguns, violent death will disappear!
Let me see ... toe of frog, eye of newt, wing of bat ... twitch your nose, abracadabra ...
Poof!! How about that!
Our primeval forefathers would sacrifice a child for the favor and blessing of their ancient gods.
Modern day witchdoctors like Josh Sugarman would sacrifice our freedom and liberty to their own false god, whose power and promise is just as meaningless and insubstantial.
Before we allow our sacred rights to be offered up on their altar of false hope, let's demand a simple test of their power.
Nothing too complicated.
Ban illegal drugs. Make them disappear from our lives ... completely!
What? Too tough?
Well, how about child pornography?
No? Can't do that one either?
Wife beating?
C'mon, we're not asking for much.
Show us something!
If you want us to give up something we treasure, you better have something more tangible to show us than a bag full of buzz words and lies.
 
I like to ask the infrequent antis hereabouts:

"Suppose all guns and knowledge related to them were suddenly miracled away. Do you honestly - HONESTLY - believe that crime would evaporate as well? Do you think that criminally-inclined people would magically stop preying on others, simply because they don't have a gun?"

No answers yet, just befuddled stares. Kind of like that "Quick, what's good about guns?" PSA.

------------------
"The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question.." Article 11, Section 13, CO state constitution.
 
Ahh, but that's the thing about antis- they don't think the problem is "criminals" commiting murder- they think guns motivate, or allow, ordinary "non-criminals" to commit murder they ordinarily would not have. They think if I buy I a gun, that makes me more likely to murder a "friend or family member" in an isolated fit of rage, or kill myself in a temporary fit of depression.

They believe we are all potential murderers, and that's why they want to disarm us.
 
If Sarah Brady were to meet that magical snake of many a bawdy tale in the middle of the desert and was given that one wish to spare him; and if that one wish were "I wish that all guns of all types and the knowledge to make them would disappear"; would she close the doors of HCI or would she simply move on to the next thing that p---es her off?

Here is the formula for successful gun control:

1. Ban all guns of all types and calibers.

2. Go house to house and ransack the home while the occupants are held at gunpoint.

3. Arrest and incarcerate for life all master machinists and anyone else who has the ability to machine a gun.

5. Arrest and incarcerate for life all chemists.

6. Confiscate all drill presses, lathes, chuckers, mills, punch presses, drop hammers, and broaching machines.

7. Ban all types of matches, gasoline, methane, naptha, butane, iodine, ammonia, propane or any other volatile or explosive substance.

8. Ban all pipe, lead, copper, aluminum, brass and anything else that can be used to make a gun.
 
Re: Laws That Can't Stop a Bullet (4-4-99)


Dear Sirs,

I would like to commend Josh Sugarman and thank him for his insightful editorial in which he finally admits that confiscation of firearms is the goal of gun control proponents. We in the pro-firearms movement have been saying this for years; to the denial of those who opposed us.

As one of the leading proponents of gun control in America, it is refreshing to have someone of the stature of Mr. Sugarman tell us the true intent of these groups. It is about time they finally told America the truth and I wish there were more people like Mr. Sugarman who have the integrity to tell the truth about the anti-firearms agenda.

Sincerely,

Jim Peel
 
Mr. Sugarman and other anti gunners need to put stickers which say "this is a gun free home". Burglers would love it! Then, if he is attacked or worse, I will give him a small bit of respect as a man of conviction. But we know these creeps for what they are. Elites who hid behind security fences and plot our destruction as a freee nation.
 
I was exercising a bit of wry indignation in a form the NYT might see its way fit to print. I have no hope of same but it may at least make one of those tight-a--es smile for once.
 
I WONDER IF SUGARMAN WOULD HAVE BEEN FOR GUN CONTROL IF HE HAD BEEN ALIVE IN WARSAW, POLAND IN 1942? IF SUGARMAN EVER HAS A 12 GA. SAWED-OFF SHOTGUN POINTED IN HIS FACE AT POINT BLANK RANGE, LIKE I HAD AT THE TENDER AGE OF TWELVE, HIS TUNE WOULD CHANGE. I HOPE AND PRAY HE NOR NONE OF YOU EVER EXPERIENCE THAT FEELING WHEN THE HAIR RISES ON THE BACK OF YOUR NECK AND URINE IS RUNNING DOWN YOUR PANTS LEG.

NOTE: see signature

------------------
"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."


[This message has been edited by Will Beararms (edited November 05, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Will Beararms (edited November 05, 1999).]
 
Here are some of the letters to the editor that have been printed by the Times on the Sugarman editorial.

The New York Times
November 7, 1999

Letters to the Editor

Gun Control Laws Aren't Enough

Related Articles
Laws That Can't Stop a Bullet (Nov. 4, 1999)
Letters Index

To the Editor:

Re "Laws That Can't Stop a Bullet" (Op-Ed, Nov. 4) by Josh Sugarmann:

Although we need "real gun control" and not half-hearted measures like
"smart" guns, we also need something more: not just an unarmed
citizenry, but an unarmed society. The gun control movement is about
disarming ordinary citizens.

Meanwhile, civil authorities and private security forces have greatly
expanded their arsenals, often to military levels. Logic would dictate
that once ordinary citizens were more or less disarmed, the keepers of
public order would also shed much of their firepower.

SANFORD GASTER
Brooklyn, Nov. 4, 1999

To the Editor:

When Josh Sugarmann (Op-Ed, Nov. 4) calls for a ban on handguns, what is
he asking for? A ban on the manufacture, import and sale of handguns? Is
a recall of all existing handguns included? How would that be
accomplished? Without recalling all the existing handguns, we would
still be faced with all the problems Mr. Sugarmann cites regarding
current gun control efforts: The existing guns could end up in the hands
of someone intending to kill.

The real answer to the problem is bullets. We need to ban bullets for
handguns, semi-automatic weapons and other weapons that are used
primarily for killing people. And we need to closely regulate and limit
the sale of bullets used for hunting and target shooting.

ANN C. EDMONDS
Bloomington, Ind., Nov. 4, 1999


To the Editor:

Re "Laws That Can't Stop a Bullet" (Op-Ed, Nov. 4), by Josh Sugarmann:

Why does Mr. Sugarmann believe that criminals would obey an outright ban
on handguns any more than the current laws they flout?

And what of the hundreds of thousands of law-abiding Americans who use a
firearm each year to deflect a criminal attack?

And most important, how does Mr. Sugarmann propose to enforce this ban?
Does he think we should suspend the Fourth Amendment and allow police to
go door to door to confiscate about 80 million legally owned handguns?

ROBEY NEWSOM
New York, Nov. 4, 1999
The writer is New York City regional director, New York State Rifle and
Pistol Association.

To the Editor:

As a mother of two, I'm terrified that we live in an armed society where
sick people have easy access to guns. So I read with great interest Josh
Sugarmann's Nov. 4 Op-Ed article about the need for real gun control,
like the Firearms Safety and Consumer Protection Act. To be honest, I
didn't know much about this legislation until Mr. Sugarmann pointed it
out. Shame on me!

Since the Aug. 10 shootings at a day camp in Granada Hills, Calif., we
mothers are playing catch up. But let's find a way to educate concerned
citizens without beating up on other devoted activists. As a mother, I
recognize a thankless job when I see one. So to all of you who have had
the courage to bring common-sense gun laws to the table: thank you.

DONNA DEES -THOMASES
Short Hills, N.J., Nov. 5, 1999
The writer is founder of Million Mom March, Mothers Day 2000.

Copyright 1999 The New York Times Company
 
Mr. Sugarman speaks of these "new" high-powered, high-capacity handguns that "cut people down" before they can react. What reaction does he expect from a crowd of unarmed people, that they call 911? Maybe Mr. Sugerman would feel better if the killers walked through the doors with a sawed off shotgun like the two Columbine killers! Even if hand guns were outlawed, how does he expect to get the criminals to give their's up?

As for the mother of two who wrote to the NY Times; I suppose she would feel safer if the 240 pound rapist breaking down her door were armed with a knife!
 
I find it interesting that the state of being a mother allows one to suspend logical thought and expect supra credibility for one's knee-jerk position that edicts will finally, after thousands and thousands of years, correct human behavior and we'll all play nice.

I'm a mother too...I say more guns, federally subsidized training and ammo. Let's see who's idea works, Ms Million Mom March.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
"What we have here is a failure to communicate." Mr. Sugarmann cannot or will not think rationally; the NY Times management cares not if it advances their notion of what is good for the masses; and the masses whose letters got printed (mine didn't) never knew what it was to think logically. One hell of a foundation for a republic, isn't it?

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