AHM>> "In other words, you believe that each and every one of us had no RIGHT to life, until a HUMAN choice was made? Also, you seem to be operating under the illusion that FREEDOM can exist without a moral foundation. Wrong answer."
MusclesMcGee>> "Yes, its a woman choice, plain and simple. It doesn't go against my religious beliefs either. Even if it did, I would never be so crass as to assume my religious beliefs come before any other Americans."
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AHM>> Hmmm. So, you DO believe that not ONE of us had any claim to the fundamental right to life, until a human choice was made. Fascinating. Maybe you should read the Declaration of Independance sometime. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are LIFE, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Do you know what this means, Muscles?
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MusclesMcGee>> "As for the second part of your sentence, you obviously have no orientation with the philosophy of law. I suggest you read Ronald Dworkin's "Taking Rights Seriously" which is considered the primer for all constitutional law and philosophy of law courses."
AHM>> And what does this "Dworkin" fellow have to do with the intent of the US Constitution?
Now here's my advice to you, go to the public library and check out the writings of our Founding Fathers. Especially the writings of Thomas Jefferson, Samuel Adams, Gouvernour Morris, Benjamin Rush, and George Washington. Logically, the men responsible for actually WRITING our Law probably have the best UNDERSTANDING of it. If your prior reasoning is any indicator, this probably makes little sense to you.
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MusclesMcGee>> "Your stance, whether you know it or not, is grounded in the natural rights theory posited by Thomas Aquinas. While I have much respect for Mr. A, the major philosophers have discounted this theory starting with Austin, then Rawls, Biz, HLA Hart (who is a staunch conservative), and on to Dworkin who's theories on constitutional law are considered the standard by which all judges set precedent."
AHM>> And where did you learn these lies, public school?
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MusclesMcGee>> "The law is NOT infused with morality, never has been (in this country) never will be. How the law is interpreted or "ought" to be interpreted is another question altogether."
AHM>> Do you have any idea how ridiculous this statement is? So many pondscum liberals say, "You can't legislate morality." Of course, anyone with half a brain KNOWS that law is, by definition, the legislating of morality. How friggin stupid can you get?
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MusclesMcGee>> "Yet again, It's not worth my time or effort to educate someone who is so terribly misinformed and narrow minded."
AHM>> What the hell are you doing on a pro-2nd Amnd discussion board? My goodness, you sound EXACTLY like a Barbara Boxer clone. Get real, or get silent.
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MusclesMcGee>> "HLA Hart is a conservative, if you would like to start to understand half of the gibberish that emanates from your keyboard, I suggest you read his work. And if you want to take the next step, I suggest you read Dworkin who expands on his work and better defines the relationship of the law and morality. Its not my job to type this up for you."
AHM>> I wouldn't waste my time reading such garbage. You seem fascinated with it though.
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AHM>> "Anti-gay? Are you serious? This issue would weigh heavily in your voting?
MusclesMcGee>> "Um, yes it weighs heavily. Did Civil rights weigh heavily in your voting ? Or was a black persons right to ride in the front of the bus silly and trivial to you ?"
AHM>> "Ah yes, the old 'sexual orientation is the same as race' argument. What a joke. A person has NO moral responsiblity for the color of their skin. The same cannot be said of CHOOSING to live the homosexual lifestyle. In other words, give me a basic break with this pathetic argument.
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MusclesMcGee>> "In california (where I live) there is a measure on this years ballot banning gay marriage."
AHM>> Well, that's part of the problem. You live in California, Liberal propaganda headquarters to the World. Any by the way, do you know what 'marriage' means? Go look it up.
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MusclesMcGee>> "I see NO reason why this is justified, and any politician that would go out of his/her way to discriminate against a person because of their sexual orientation is unsuited for office. Oleg Volk has been making posters showing a lesbian couple advocating YOUR rights. Are you insinuating that they should retain the ability kill, but not one to love?"
AHM>> Hey, I have no problem with homosexuals doing whatever they want behind closed doors. HOWEVER, I will not be forced into accepting their behavior as normal or as something I should have to tolerate.
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AHM>> "And finally, the grand finale. You say, "Which would I rather lose gun rights or abortion ?" For you to even CONSIDER that question long enough to post it here tells me that you place too little value on the 2nd Amendment.'
MusclesMcGee>> "For me to even CONSIDER shows that I have the capacity for reason, and unlike you, don't rely on knee jerk reactions."
AHM>> Wow! You really ARE a liberal. The only people I know who use the worn out "knee-jerk" term are liberals. Oh, shock me.
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MusclesMcGee>> "As for your "quotes" someone else answered that just fine, your not worth my time. There is no point in arguing with someone who doesn't even understand the basic concept of critical reasoning. Not to mention, someone who probably thinks the Inquisition was a good idea."
AHM>> What "quotes" are you referring to???
Go do you homework, Muscles. And you can start with reading DEEPLY into American History and by studying the writings of the Founders. Perhaps a little research into Supreme Court rulings, especially during the first 150 years of our nation's existence, would serve you well. Have fun.
AHM
"Why...should not the Bible regain the place it once held as a school book? Its morals are pure, its examples captivating and noble. The reverence for the Sacred Book that is thus early impressed last long; and, probably, if not impressed in infancy, never takes hold of the mind."
(Fisher Ames, The Works of Fisher Ames, 1809.) Founding father who on September 20, 1789 helped provide the wording for the First Amendment.
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars.... The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and cherish them.... Let it simply be asked, ‘Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert?' ...And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds...reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."
(George Washington, 1796, Farewell Address.)
