Jogger kills knife-wielding assailant

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JimR

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What firearm to CCW while jogging has been a discussion topic around here somewhere recently. Here's an example of why you might want to do so.

Wednesday, 31 May 2000
Jogger who shot attacker says he felt life was in danger

By Joseph Barrios
Arizona Daily Star

The jogger who fended off two would-be robbers by shooting one of them says he was not physically injured in the attack but did feel his life was in danger.

And he's not even sure how to feel after pointing a handgun at another person and pulling the trigger.

"I'm surviving," said the man, whose name is not being used by the Arizona Daily Star at his request.

The shooting happened Sunday about 9:30 p.m. near East Speedway and Wilmot Road. The 31-year-old Tucson man was jogging on East Bellevue Street when two men approached him from behind and attacked him, said Sgt. Marco Borboa, Tucson Police spokesman.

The man said one of his attackers pulled out a 5-inch folding hunter's knife and made a threat. He said that's when he pulled out his 9 mm, semi-automatic handgun and fired.

Police later identified the knife-wielding attacker as Ramon Soto, 32. He remained in fair condition last night at Tucson Medical Center. The bullet struck him on the left side of his chest and exited his back.

Eduardo Reyna, 24, the other man police say was involved in the attack, remained overnight at the Pima County Jail on a $5,000 bond on charges of armed robbery and aggravated assault.

Police were called to the shooting by two motorists driving by the scene. The jogger held the two men at gunpoint until police arrived.

Based on the information police have gathered so far, the jogger did nothing illegal, Borboa said. Police are continuing their investigation.

"At some point in their lives, people get involved in a violent situation. I figured it was bound to happen at some point," the jogger said. "That's why I got a (gun) permit."

The man, who lives on the East Side, said he was left stunned after the shooting. He said he does not agree with people who might say he should not have have been out after dark.

"The criminals don't set their clock to any set time," he said.

Standing in his front door last night, the man said he thinks he acted within the confines of the law. He also said he wishes it had never happened in the first place.

Lt. Michael Gillooly, a Tucson Police patrol commander on the East Side, said it is common to see people walking and jogging late at night during the summer months. Increasing temperatures force people to exercise either early in the morning or late at night.

"I see people in every area doing it. Throughout this section of the city, we see people and are aware of people exercising at night during the summer hours," Gillooly said.

The jogger was justified in his actions, said Todd Rathner, a Tucson resident and national board member of the National Rifle Association. Although Rathner said he does not know specifics about the shooting, he said the law was written to protect citizens in those kinds of situations.

"This proves the Arizona (concealed weapons) law works," Rathner said. "(The jogger) was justified in using deadly physical force. He used deadly force to stop the attack and he called the police after the fact."

Under Arizona law, a person with a concealed weapons permit can use deadly force if he feels his life or the life of another person is threatened, Rathner said.

But the use of deadly force is a "double-edged sword," said Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik.

"Sometimes, the deadly force works in your favor and sometimes, it works against you," Dupnik said. "In this case, it apparently worked out pretty well."

Dupnik said carrying a concealed weapon is a personal choice. People who choose to get a permit should use "the best weapons, the best training and the best judgment."

More than 120,000 Arizona residents have applied for a concealed weapons permit since 1994, the first year the law went into effect, said Sgt. Bill Whalen, supervisor for the Arizona Department of Public Safety's concealed weapons permit unit.

About 60,000 of those applicants now have active permits, Whalen said. The number of residents applying for the permits has decreased.

In the first few months permit applications were available, DPS received more than 15,000 applications a month. Now, the average is about 1,800.

Whalen said there is no reliable way to keep track of where guns are used to defend individuals or to prevent a crime. If a concealed weapons permit owner is arrested for a crime, DPS is automatically notified.

Annually, about 1 percent of active permit holders are charged with a crime, Whalen said.

First-time permit applicants must complete a 16-hour training course within six months of submitting an application, submit their fingerprints to DPS and pay a $50 processing fee. Permit holders must complete a four-hour refresher course to renew their permit.
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Did the BG subsequently die, or is the topic label in error?
And $5000 bond for armed robbery? Guess they haven't learned anything from the NYC Wendy's massacre.
 
I wish some gun manufacturers would start collecting stories like this and turn them into TV and print ads:

"I Owe My Life To My SIG" (followed by true, first-person story of how average husband and father defended his sleeping family from rabid druggie housebreakers)

"Beretta: America's Choice For Defense, and Mine!" (followed by true, first-person story of how a convenience store owner dropped an armed thug, with disclaimer that the US Army's purchase of umpteen bazillion M92s does not constitute official government endorsement for civilian use) :)

"Glock: An Answer To Rapists" (followed by true, first-person story of how a woman put an end to the career of a serial molester)

Maybe I'm an optimist, but in the current climate I believe the manufacturers should be proactive and show the public how legally owned and properly used weapons can stop crime. They could offer some compensation to people who will tell their stories, or create a club like the Kevlar Survivors, maybe with nice satin jackets and baseball caps. You could go the the range proudly in your club jacket with "Kahr Arms Save #373" embroidered on the chest!

If they don't want to be hounded out of business, manufacturers have to get their case in front of the whole public, and that means mainstream media. When was the last time you saw a gun ad outside of a gun magazine? Can you picture this:

"This broadcast of the Dallas Cowboys versus the Washington Redskins is brought to you by SIGARMS! When it counts, count on a SIG -- quality arms for law enforcement, self defense and sport shooting."

"Oprah is brought to you by Kel-Tec: It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog."

What about product placement, which has worked for so many consumer products? "James Bond's pistols supplied by Walther" in the credits (why should BMW get all the publicity?)

Sorry if I strayed into legal/political stuff in the general forum, but the case above opened the window.
 
Interesting little bit. Does the article imply that of the initial set of permit holders - many (50%) did not renew?

I've heard that said in other states.
Folks get the permit - decide that carrying is not for them and let it go.

Anybody know more?
 
Tim - I must've misread the article. Or maybe was just too hopeful for another example of Darwinism in Action.
 
"But the use of deadly force is a 'double-edged sword,' said Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik.

'Sometimes, the deadly force works in your favor and sometimes, it works against you,' Dupnik said. 'In this case, it apparently worked out pretty well.'

Dupnik said carrying a concealed weapon is a personal choice. People who choose to get a permit should use 'the best weapons, the best training and the best judgment.'"

Faint praise from one of Tucson's finest. Does he go through this mental gyration when one of his officers has to defend his / her own life?

Folks on TFL should know that Tucson is a bastion of liberal thought in Arizona, and the city and county governments are notoriously anti-self defense. As a matter of fact, Tucson's Assistant Police Chief made a fool of himself at a legislatirve hearing where he testified against our firearms preemption law.

I want to also note that we cannot acquire the 'best weapons', because people like this sheriff have worked hard to limit civilians to 10 round magazines. And, if many people had their way, this Tucson jogger would have been disarmed in spite of his carry permit - Tucson pol's have worked hard to prevent carry in city parks and even on some roads.

We'd like to sell Tucson to California, but haven't had any offers yet ... ;)

Regards from AZ
 
I love the concept that some people feel that law-abiding citizens shouldn't go out after dark because there are criminals out then.

Fine, let's just surrender as a whole people to criminals.

Then what?

If no one goes out at night, will the criminal start bugging us during the day?

Then what? Don't go out during the day?

Christ almighty.
 
Jeff I like you line of reasoning on selling Tucson to KA but why not just give it to them?Or maybe trade for part of Norther CA.The people up there would probably jump at the chance.We in the Prescott area are afraid that KA is goin to annex this whole county!If voted on it probably go through.Used to be a good place to live.

------------------
beemerb
We have a criminal jury system which is superior to any in the world;
and its efficiency is only marred by the difficulty of finding twelve men
every day who don't know anything and can't read.
-Mark Twain
 
I wrote the reporter and his editor a note of thanks and expressed my surprise at a half-way even-handed article coming out of the Star.

I got this back:
"Thank you for your comments. I'm relatively new to the Star and still learning the paper is perceived as having a liberal slant. I'm just trying to take things story by story and include as much good information as
possible.
Of course, write again when you have other comments or story ideas.
Thank you.

-Joseph

ps. I always like to ask: Would it be OK for me to forward your comments/address to our editorial page?"

Well, his newness may explain it :)

Basically I got in shots against the media (intellectual whores for the government and
"presstitutes") and said that a lesser reporter would have had a field day putting an anti-gun spin to it. I thanked him for his professionalism.

Maybe if the editors got a few more in this vein it might, just might, tone down their advocacy. Ah, perchance to dream.


[This message has been edited by Oatka (edited June 01, 2000).]
 
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