Joe Biden's Ignorance and The Anti gun community in general.

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sharpie443

New member
I have been arguing with the anti-gun community off and on since this whole push for more regulations started and I am fed up with some of the things that are being said. I’m not talking about them pushing for more regulation. If that is what they feel is needed then they have every right to come out and say that. I do however have a problem with the way they portray gun owners and the complete lack of knowledge about the things they want to regulate. The frankly bigoted way they pigeonhole every gun owner is insulting. I’ve come to see this as the one biggest problem we have when it comes to swaying public opinion to our side. I spend a lot of time gun shows, shooting clubs, machine gun shoots and can normally be found hanging out in my friend’s gun shop. I see quite a bit of diversity in the community but you would think we are all uneducated far right white christen supremacists if all you do is listen how the media and the anti-gun crowed portrays us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0yREhUj1uQ
 
Keep in mind is that lumping one's opponents together and stereotyping their behavior, or their attitudes, is done by people on both sides of the debate. It's one of the things that keeps actual conversations from happening.
 
Keep in mind is that lumping one's opponents together and stereotyping their behavior, or their attitudes, is done by people on both sides of the debate. It's one of the things that keeps actual conversations from happening.
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I disagree with this. You imply that we are equally at fault for intentionally engaging in a misinformation campaign as the anti-gun groups are. This is just not the case. I am around plenty of gun folks and never hear any pro-gun people using cartoonish stereotypes to depict those who simply aren't into guns or shooting as "clowns", "villains", terrorists or criminals. On the other side, there is a concerted effort to portray anyone who thinks they need an AR15, 20 round magazine, or (should I even say it) a drum magazine as budding terrorists.

There is a very one-sided campaign of intentional lies and deception going on, and it's not being waged by us.
 
I disagree with this. You imply that we are equally at fault for intentionally engaging in a misinformation campaign as the anti-gun groups are. This is just not the case. I am around plenty of gun folks and never hear any pro-gun people using cartoonish stereotypes to depict those who simply aren't into guns or shooting as "clowns", "villains", terrorists or criminals. On the other side, there is a concerted effort to portray anyone who thinks they need an AR15, 20 round magazine, or (should I even say it) a drum magazine as budding terrorists.

There is a very one-sided campaign of intentional lies and deception going on, and it's not being waged by us.
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I think the term assault weapon is ridiculous.

I also think the term Modern Sporting Rifle is ridiculous.

An AR-15 is a rifle. It has purposes beyond assaulting, just as it has purposes beyond sporting. Both of these, in their own way is a misinformation campaign. Having said that, I believe that we are engaging in it far less than they are. Though I very well could be biased. But let me ask you something, have you ever reffered to an anti, as a sheeple? I have, I can admit. That's the same thing as calling all of us right wing, christian red neck, racist hicks.

I fight propaganda with facts. But not all of us do.

That's why you take non gun people to shoot. So they can see us.
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Let the experience make the argument for them, not your words (which most won't listen to/believe anyway.)
 
You imply that we are equally at fault for intentionally engaging in a misinformation campaign as the anti-gun groups are.
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Actually, I didn't read that at all. The point is that we can be as guilty as the other side of lazy and malicious methods to make a point.

I am around plenty of gun folks and never hear any pro-gun people using cartoonish stereotypes to depict those who simply aren't into guns or shooting as "clowns", "villains", terrorists or criminals.
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If that's the case, you've been quite fortunate. The mockery of our opponents is abundant, from the President being pictured in Joker makeup to the inane parodies of the names of Senators and the Vice President.

On the other hand, I've noticed that the anti-gun lobby has toned down their rhetoric. Rather than branding us as terrorists and degenerates, they're fostering the appearance of the benign negotiator appealing to us to consider compromise.

Is their agenda honest? No, but they're presenting it very well, and perception is what counts.
 
Joe Biden's Ignorance....far from it

The VP is a career politician so he has to take a stance for his party. I think he's far from ignorance, just doing what a politician has to do.

I find it ironic that when the VP talks about using a shotgun for HD, overzealous gun owners mock him, but at the same time, I see postings on this forum recommending shotgun as a good HD alternative over handgun and rifles.

OP, aren't you pigeonholing the anti-gun crowd just as they're doing to us?
 
Come on, Joe Byden is an ass. (and I voted for him!)
He was speaking about home defense and suggested that taking a double barrel shotgut and shooting BOTH barrels into the dark would would be enough. Let's see, at that point you have two empety barrels and Mr. Badass is in control.
Sorry Joe, your advice sucks.
 
It is human nature to try and put the worst face on one's enemies. Stupid, ignorant, bigoted, misguided (one of the nicer ones), all kinds of names all the way up to enemy of the people.....

Whatever it takes to achieve their ends is grist for the propaganda mill, and friends, these folks have been to school. Not the schools that they run for us, but the school that teaches winning is more important than being honest.

One of most irksome, to me, is a smiling grandfatherly/kindly uncle appearing figure, with the moral and legal authority of the Vice President of the United States, publically tossing off the bull that has been floating through break rooms, bars, clubs, and anywhere men gather and talk of defending their homes, for generations.

Once upon a time, it may have even been true sometimes, but today, people who shoot in the air or shoot through a door get in all kinds of legal trouble way more often than not. And that assumes it actually works and they live to face the legal system.

Wonder when he will actually say "with a shotgun, you can't miss!"... is he really that ....foolish...or are we?

Would you buy a used car from that man?
 
Keep in mind is that lumping one's opponents together and stereotyping their behavior, or their attitudes, is done by people on both sides of the debate.
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I agree, a lot of times we lump them in one group of radical anti-2A hypocrites(though some are). We see them as ignorant as they see us. Truth be told, I have anti-gun family members. They aren't this way from ignorance, but rather horrific personal experiences. Those mentioned are harder to argue with simply because of their conviction, but ignorant, not so much.
That's why you take non gun people to shoot. So they can see us.
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I agree, hands on or first hand experience tends to sway more people.
 
Due to his various gaffes, it's easy to miscalculate Biden.

The man is not stupid. Far from it. He was the point-man for Clinton and Foley in the leadup to the Assault Weapons Ban. He helped draft the legislation, and he was the guy who got everybody (from both sides of the aisle) to come to the table and start agreeing to things.

He won't win any awards for public speaking or firearms knowledge, but we misunderestimate him at our peril.
 
Underestimate opponents at your own peril, just as overestimating your position may also lead to one of those "what the heck just happend" situations.

Many here, myself included. seem to prefer logic or facts alone as a basis for positioning oneself, forgetting at times that the human being is an emotional being as well.

Even your friends and family will sell you down the river to foster their own cause once in a great while.

Biden et al?... stupid like a fox. Gaffes and all.

I only hope that somehow, someway, F & F is linked to whatever national "gun-control" issues that may become law and that situation and the coverup is brought to light. (a boy, er, an old man can dream)

It might almost... almost be worth giving up something to see the entire crew behind that, top to bottom, going down publically in shame and dishonor.
 
have you ever reffered to an anti, as a sheeple?
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No, never. I don't even think of them in that light. I think most antis are informed voters, just ignorant about firearms and simply don't like the 2nd Amendment.

Actually, I didn't read that at all. The point is that we can be as guilty as the other side of lazy and malicious methods to make a point.
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The problem with this is that you think the "other side" is simply being lazy. No, they are being intentionally malicious. And, I really haven't seen any evidence of pro-gun people being malicious toward those that seek to take our rights away and make criminals out of law abiding responsible gun-owning citizens.
 
I think most antis are informed voters, just ignorant about firearms and simply don't like the 2nd Amendment.
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I would be hesitant to generalize, but I often do, unfortunately. I think some are nanny state, government "statists" that want to give over their lives to the security they falsely believe government can provide. I also think as you do that they specifically just don't like guns for whatever reason. A lot of it is perception based on the media or family traditions against firearms. Some of it is elitism, and the belief that educated, evolved, and intellectual people don't believe in violence, and they see guns as just a means of violence.
 
For some reason, many of us tend to automatically view anti gunners and their leaders as 'stupid'.
Were they all stupid, we would not be in the shape we are in today. The folks leading the anti Second Amendment fight are media savy, agenda driven, and willing to trade journalistic ethics, truth and accuracy, for results.
They are NOT ignorant, they are not stupid, they are not dumb.
 
If that's the case, you've been quite fortunate. The mockery of our opponents is abundant, from the President being pictured in Joker makeup to the inane parodies of the names of Senators and the Vice President.
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There are many reasons to dislike the current President, Vice President and Senators, only a small fraction of which has to do with their all-out campaign to take our guns and gun rights away. So, every time someone pokes fun at a public figure, the chances that this has something to do directly with their anti-gun bias is likely less than 50%. Furthermore, waging a political campaign against public figures (whatever the methods may be) is simply not comparable at all to public figures waging a deceitful campaign against ordinary, non-public, gun owning citizens.

Is their agenda honest? No, but they're presenting it very well,
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I do agree with what you've said here.

But, let's remember something here: AR15's have been around since the '60's. Semi-auto AK style rifles have been owned by ordinary citizens since at least the 1970's - maybe much earlier. 9mm's with 15+ round magazines have been common since the 60's, maybe much earlier. Drum magazines and "stick" magazines that hold more than 30-40 rounds have been around for 70+ years.

When the antis claim to want a "discussion" about taking these guns and magazines away, what they are really saying is that it is fair game to criminalize anyone owning guns that have been owned by ordinary citizens for the past 50 - 70 years. This is simply outrageous and not comparable to ANYTHING pro-gun people have done to anyone. Yes, we are completely on the defensive in an offensive war being waged very aggressively at our rights. I think we have been all too "civil" toward our opponents. Perhaps because we have the truth and history on your side, we can afford to do this; but let's not forget that the other side is being ruthlessly aggressive toward us - and that is completely one-sided.
 
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I find it ironic that when the VP talks about using a shotgun for HD, overzealous gun owners mock him, but at the same time, I see postings on this forum recommending shotgun as a good HD alternative over handgun and rifles.
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Did you even read what he said to do with said shotgun in a HD situation? The first time he mentions it, he said to crank of both barrels of a double barrel into the air to scare off a potential intruder. The second time he mentions is, he says to fire through a closed door. I think someone in South Africa did just this, and is not in a world of trouble....

No one is mocking him for saying a shotgun is a good HD tool. They're mocking him in the way he says to use it. It shows a negligent attitude towards guns. Heck, I used to think a shotgun loaded with buckshot was the ultimate HD tool, but lately I've been changing my thinking that perhaps an AR is a better HD tool...especially with some ballistics testing I've seen showing a .223 round has less of a chance of exiting your house than buckshot if fired inside. But I wouldn't mock anyone who said a shotgun is a poor HD tool...its all in how it is handled.

No, never. I don't even think of them in that light. I think most antis are informed voters, just ignorant about firearms and simply don't like the 2nd Amendment.
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I'm honestly happy to hear this. I need to really start changing my thinking about them. Most aren't stupid, they're just misguided and ignorant when it comes to firearms. The problem is, I hear it all the time at the range, and reading online. It's not helping our cause at all.
 
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