JHP performance in rifles?

B

Bpcurious

New member
I recently ordered parts for my first AR's and now I am ammo shopping :p

I bought a bunch of M193 for practice, but buying defensive ammo has me stumped :confused:

There's a lot of conflicting information out there and I can't seem to find a decent answer anywhere. Some saying JHPs only increase accuracy (what) and do not expand, others take the opposing view.. Angry words are used.. Keyboards are broken.

So how would 5.56 JHPs perform out of 16" barrel at defensive distances (under 50yds)? While I'm at it, how about JSPs?

What's the word gentlemen?
 
There are many flavors of JHPs. Some match bullets have hollow points as a result of their method of manufacture. They may expand, they may fragment, they may stay intact. All that means is that match bullet was made for accuracy and not expansion, because it was made for target shooting.

Othe hollow points are made for hunting, they are designed to have expansion or fragmentation characteristics for a type of game. Some are designed for varmints, some for medium game or predators, others for larger game. These may have bonded jackets, special alloyed cores or solid copper construction.

JSPs are similar in variety.

So there is no quick answer. But a gene metal answer would be that, I would look for a HP or SP bulletare with some controlled expansion characteristics. Maybe a bonded bullet in a medium weight (62-68gr).
 
I can honestly say coyotes are really "impressed" by the Federal 50 grain
American Eagle JHP at any range under 250 yards. That's as far as I've witnessed their use. Up close, they leave a fairly serious exit wound.
On bad guys? I have no idea since I'm not allowed to give them a decent test due to that pesky 1st degree murder thing. I will say that's what I have loaded in the 11.5" AR "pistol" I keep within reach of my bed.
 
Ive had good luck with 55 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips over 4895 and running about 2900 fps. Very accurate, and devastating on anything furry Ive shot with them so far. :)
 
LE/PD selection

My understanding is that a "bonded" soft point is the current most suggested load by the LE and PD types. As a SD/PD shooting with a carbine may involve barriers/cover/vehicles, etc, a bonded slug may hold together a bit better on light cover to clip a threat on the other side. The SP aspect should help with expansion and some energy dump/damage on target to get a better "stop". Beware though this thread will likely draw flame regards using a carbine and overpenetrative ammo.

I've heard talk of agencies loading with soft or frangible slugs in certain environments, but never have seen or read anything definitive. Maybe somebody has.

I'll add this note as well. In any .223 ammo intended for AR/SD/LE use, I would want a cannelure/ crimping groove and resultant crimp on the slug, and the primer crimped in as well. That pretty mucy translates into factory ammo. Little details to possibly enhance function and avoid failures. I personally have seen 2 semi AR's tied up using .223 ammo where the primer from a spent case detached during extraction/eject and got loose inside the trigger group, under the hammer, keeping the hammer from locking back and rendering the carbine useless until it could be broken down and the culprit removed. In both instances there was no crimp on the primer.
 
I don't think I've ever seen any JHP in 223. Or any other rifle round for that matter. You see them used quite often in handgun rounds whether fired in rifles or handguns. At rifle speeds a HP would expand too rapidly and the bullet would likely explode on impact.

Most of the plastic tipped bullets work somewhat like a HP in that the tip is open with a plastic tip that drives back into the bullet aiding expansion while giving a very aerodynamic point while in flight. Soft point bullets do about the same thing but are usually less aerodynamic.

When you say JHP I think you are referring to some of the match bullets that have a tiny opening on the tip. These are not HP bullets. The tip is left open as part of the manufacturing process and it does not aide in expansion. And yes, as a rule these bullets tend to be more accurate. Not necessarily because of the open tip, but because they are manufactured to tighter tolerances and made as target bullets.

For accuracy, buy target bullets. If you want better performance as a SD round a SP or most of the plastic tipped bullets made to expand is what you want.
 
Match bullets are built as they are, because the base of the bullet is more critical to accuracy, than the tip.

The Noslers are basically built the same way, and Ive always found them to be just as accurate as the Sierra MK's, and do a lot more damage. Not that I havent killed a bunch of furry critters with the .308 MK's. They kill things just as dead. Ive also found their GKs to be very good as well.

Personally, with the AR's, I wouldnt feel the least bit under gunned with plain old GI FMJ.
 
IMO, "defense" means shots of probably no more than 50 yards. Beyond that, it seems to me to go beyond the realm of defending one's home.

So, any load that's good enough for a coyote oughta work just fine in the living room or front yard.
 
50 yards away means there is no imminent threat to you or your's unless the BG also has a long gun. Like Art says, you don't need special ammo.
In any case, JHP is a term applied to handgun bullets, not rifle bullets. Hollow point rifle bullets, assuming match grade bullets, are not designed to expand rapidly upon impact. They're made to make a nice round hole that makes the target is easy to score.
Hollow point varmint bullets are made to rapidly expand upon impact, but they don't do so because of the hollow point. Their jackets are thin and usually have even thinner lines/places in the jacket to aid expansion. They don't penetrate much.
You should be practicing with the ammo you intend using. And get the rifle built before you worry about ammo. The rifling twist you opt for makes a huge difference in the bullet used.
 
There are several JHP rifle rounds for various calibers, including all the way up to the .375 H&H Magnum.

Depending on caliber & intended use, some will open (hunting) & others won't (match).

Some in the .223/5.56 caliber are designed to open up on impact, others are designed with a hollow forward section for either accuracy only, or to promote tumbling on impact, or both.
Denis
 
It depends on what the JHP bullet was designed to do. Some are designed to be highly accurate and minimally expansive. Some are designed to be controlled expansion. Some are designed to be grenades.
 
HP rifle rounds

Yes, there are match hollow points, which are not intended as game bullets.

But there are plenty of hollow points bullets for centerfire rifles, intended for medium or big game.

I have a 2003 Remington catalog here in front of me, and on the first page alone there are 7 different "hollowpoint" loads, not match ammo, in cals from .17 Rem to 7mm-08. Not a current reference, sure, but I doubt that all those loads are discontinued. Skimming the last two pages brings the total to 11, including 1 in 30-30 and another in .45-70. Factory ammo.

Sierra sells a very popular 165 gr HP in .30 cal that is a game load. And aren't the wonder bullets from Barnes all hollowpoints, and the hunting Bergers too?
 
Have a Win PDX1 7.62x39 JHP here, Brown Bear 7.62x39 JHP, a Win .45-70 JHP, a Barnes .45-70 JHP, a CorBon .375 H&H JHP, among others.

JHPs in rifle calibers are less common as you move up from the .223, but there are several.
Denis
 
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