Jewish children are targeted, shot and killed!

F

Frank Haertlein

Moderator
A new tragedy has unfolded in California with a gunman going on a shooting rampage thus injuring numerous Jewish children.
Let me give my simpathies to the children and their parents. I, nor most, sensible people want or wish for this kind of thing to happen.

Of course guns are getting the blame. Please read this further, don't discard this email at this point as you will learn something here!


What we need to do is to inform everyone, and I mean everyone, that anyone could have done the same thing, as that crazed killer of Jewish children, with a fire extinquiser filled with gasoline and a Bic lighter. Imagine going into a schoolroom with this weapon and spraying all the children. Many would be killed or burned so horrably that they wished they would be dead.

How about we get some hollywood production company to make a movie of just this kind of event. Let's get hollywood to promote gasoline instead of their promoting the use of a gun in all their movies. Let's get hollywood to make a movie of this so that people can see that they don't need a hard to obtain gun to commit mass murder, all they need is some easily obtainable gasoline and a fire extinquiser. Simply fill the fire extinquiser with gasoline, pressurize it at your local gas station so it sprays a long distance and then seek out your local school. Voila! Instant dead children, horrably disfiguring burns for the survivors and un-contestable proof that you do not need a gun to kill people!

What do you think? Will hollywood ever show that this is a way to kill without using a gun? Or is the use of a gun somehow more "romantic, depraved, gratuitous, wanton, evil, or easy" ? Do you think that maybe hollywood, the news media, the talk shows, movies and television documentaries with their sensationalizing and glorification of guns has altered our societies mentality such that all people know that all greivences are to be settled with a gun? We go after guns with a vengeance and use any crazed killers actions as justification for banning guns. But trust me guys/gals, if people want to kill or commit mass murder, and you know most don't, then they don't need a gun to do it. All they need is a local gas station and a WILL to do it.

I look forward to your reasoned response!

[This message has been edited by Frank Haertlein (edited August 10, 1999).]
 
With the anti-gun and pro-children stances of this government,is it a surprise that children are being killed with guns? Look for more of it until the guns are gone.
Is there some kind of conspiracy? Of course there is.

------------------
Better days to be,

Ed
 
One of our local talk show host who describes himself as an anarchists is ranting and raving on his show this evening about outlawing firearms---I really dislike the guy, and just hope he stays here after I leave. He is playing the anti gun argument this way.......with out the gun they could not have easily killed as many people....a caller pointed out that the guy in ga used a hammer to kill people and he use the old saw about what are guns for?, another words a hammer has a use other than killing, a durn means test.........this guy has just about ruined this station for me...I like or can enjoy all of the shows but his and invariably turn him off.....

more importantly since this happened in california there must be an important gun vote there anytime now,,,,,,another coincidence?, the timing is very fortunate for the anti-constitutionalists and unfortunate for the american people.....I know yall probably feel the same way but I dam* near cringe anymore when i hear the press even speak about guns, and an incident like this and how they'll play it .....it just sickens me then i just get infuriated....this has to stop .......fubsy.

[This message has been edited by fubsy (edited August 11, 1999).]
 
The timing of these shootings is suspicious. Why do they always occur when gun legislation is pending?

Are these Manchurian Canidates or people pushed over the edge by gun grabbers to further their cause? Wouldn't surprise me in the least.

They're licking their socialist chops tonight, no doubt. This will bring on more shrill cries for gun control or an Executive Order by the Fuhrer hisself.

No matter. I have quit worrying about every incident that the media hypes. I've drawn my line in the sand and am locked and loaded. I don't care what illegal laws they might pass, I won't obey them. I'm committed to fight and maybe die if need be for the Constitution and the natural rights of man.

I wouldn't want to live in their socialist world anyway. I had two ancestors who fought in the first Revolution.

We outnumber them and can take the country back if we have the will. Anybody with me?
 
"One of our local talk show host who describes himself as an
anarchists is ranting and raving on his show this evening about
outlawing firearms"

That's rich...an anarchist raving to make laws. GD hypocrite. He's an "anarchist" for ratings, he's actually a socialist.

Leadfoot..
I'd say most have us have drawn our line in the sand and we know what to do and when. Don't give the enemy intel ;)

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
Don't forget to stress to people how lucky it is that the jerk was "spraying bullets everywhere", as they've been reporting. If he'd had a lever action carbine and taken aimed shots, he could have tripled his hits and made every one fatal. Better yet, he could have used his car to get them on the playground.

The BBC is reporting that he used a "sub-machine gun."

Damn, I hope they catch this one alive.
 
Yeah,alive like Lee Harvey Oswald and James Earl Ray and John Hinkley.Then it can all come out at the trial.

------------------
Better days to be,

Ed
 
He could have used an axe, hatchet, or machette and done better, body count wise. Please don't take this as sick as it sounds, but maybe the 'deadly' Uzi isn't so bad, couldn't even kill 5 yr. olds (this is pure sarcasm).

As usual, they ratb@st@rds blame the instrumentatity rather than the sorry sick SOB that did the deed. An of course, it's a 'hate' crime (as opposed to 'love' crime??)

This strikes me as an excellent opportunity to go with common sense and instead of disarming school workers and creating targets of opportunity, start arming teachers/child care workers. American Jews (and the rest of us) should learn from their Israeli brethern.
M2

Just had another brainfart - maybe he was just getting even with all the transplants who have benn 'californicating' Washington state?


[This message has been edited by Mike in VA (edited August 11, 1999).]
 
The timing of these shootings is suspicious. Why do they always occur when gun legislation is pending?

Because gun legislation is always pending. These events just make the bills more visible.
 
This whole incident is just dripping with irony.

A psycho (yes, a certified psycho) shoots Jews with an Israeli gun.

The incident occurs as a grassroots movement to place an "assault weapons" ban on referendum is gaining strength.

And the suspect's name is Buford. Sheesh.

Anyone want to bet they find an NRA membership card in his wallet when they take him down?

------------------
A vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil.
Vote Libertarian - For A Change.
 
1) He is a known neo-Nazi
2) He skipped on his sentencing trial for assault

Seems to me LE had ample reason to keep their eye on him...
But, no it our fault cuz we have guns so we must be punished.
Bite me!

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
NEAL KNOX REPORT
Another Coincidence
By NEAL KNOX
WASHINGTON, D.C. (Nov. 1) -- On the eve of the elections,
with the crime bill ban on military-style guns a major issue in
dozens of close races, a quiet guy from Colorado shoots up the
White House.

The gun was a Chinese-made SKS -- not on the crime bill's
banned list, but no longer legal to import, and illegally
converted (under the 1991 crime bill) by adding a folding stock
and high-capacity detachable magazine.

It was almost predictable because these ill-timed -- some
would say perfectly timed -- incidents so often carry the exact
message that is currently highest on the anti-gun agenda.

The press and Handgun Control Inc. are crowing that the
White House shooting shows "how right" those politically
threatened Congressmen were to ban so-called "assault weapons."

Someone has said: "Once is happenstance; twice is
coincidence; three times is enemy action."

In 1962, with Sen. Tom Dodd's mail order gun ban beginning
to move, President John F. Kennedy and a Dallas police officer
were killed with mail-ordered guns.

The day the Senate Judiciary Committee voted on the Dodd
bill, two votes were changed -- and the bill came out -- because
Martin Luther King was murdered.

Two months later, the day the House was expected to kill the
bill, Sen. Bobby Kennedy was assassinated. The bill became law.

In 1984, with an armor-piercing bullet ban pending and
"Uzi's" under fire, James Huberty killed 21 at a San Ysidro
McDonald's -- armed with an Uzi rifle loaded with rare iron-cored
armor-piercing 9mm's (though most were killed by his shotgun).

A couple of years later, Michael Ryan killed 16 people in
Hungerford, England with an AK-47S -- for which he had been
licensed unusually quickly and easily. That resulted in a law
requiring owners to destroy such guns; required pump and semi-
auto shotguns to be arsenal-altered to two shots, and even
demanded registration of double-barrel shotguns.

Exactly the same thing then happened, with similar results,
in Australia.

In January 1989, with model "assault weapon" legislation
from HCI having been filed in several states, and with the
California Attorney General already having asked police for
evidence to support his planned "assault weapon" ban, Patrick
Purdey killed five kids and wounded 31 on a Stockton, Calif.
schoolyard, using an AK-47S.

With the Senate scheduled to vote on an "assault weapons"
ban, Joseph Wesbecker killed 8 and wounded 14 with an AK-47S in a
Louisville printing plant, Sept. 14, 1989.

When Lepine killed 14 women at a Canadian college with a
Ruger Mini-14 -- Canada's laws were further tightened.

In 1990, with floor votes pending on semi-auto bills in both
houses of the U.S. Congress, a guy with a long criminal record,
one James Pough killed eight people at a Jacksonville, Fla., GMAC
office with a .30 M1 Carbine.

On Oct. 16, 1991, the day before the U.S. House was
scheduled to vote on a bill banning "assault weapons" and over-
seven-shot magazines, JoJo Henard used 15 and 17-round pistols to
shoot 42 people, killing 21, in Killeen, Texas.

There have been many other such cases -- as many as five
within a year -- each seeming to come at the best time for anti-
gunners to pass legislation by dancing in fresh blood.

If the availability of military-style guns were the
culprit, we would have been seeing such mass murders regularly
throughout American history, for there's never been a time when
the Army smallarms from recent wars weren't common.

The 30-shot M1 Carbine Pough used at the GMAC office has
been as common as Chevrolets for 51 years; high capacity 9mm
pistols have been plentiful for 60 years; AR-15's and AK-47S's
have been abundant for 20 to 30 years.

Why have almost all the horrible incidents with those guns
occurred within just the last ten years?

Is it possible that some of those incidents could have been
created for the purpose of disarming the people of the free
world? With drugs and evil intent, it's possible.

Rampant paranoia on my part? Maybe. But there have been
far too many coincidences to ignore.
 
Sounds to me like we should ban the introduction or voting on any gun control legislation...considering the amount of mayhem that occurs the day of or just prior to votes taken on such issues.

[This message has been edited by TR (edited August 11, 1999).]
 
Straight from the horse's arse comes the following bit o' wisdom:

He used a Bushmaster AR-15 rifle and
several handguns, according to John
Torres of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco
and Firearms. None were semiautomatic
weapons or machine guns, he said.

So Bushmaster now makes single-shot bolt-action AR's, huh?

------------------
A vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil.
Vote Libertarian - For A Change.
 
Correlation does NOT prove causality.

I really hate it when people say "look, a loon shot a bunch of people just before some important legislation was voted on - he must have been planted!" It shows that the speaker doesn't understand the statistics in question, and makes himself (and by extrapolation, us) look loony.

It's almost perfect as an example in the book "How To Lie With Statistics".

The problem is the conspiratorially-minded look at legislation passed promptly after an "incident", find several pairings, and call it a conspiracy.

The proper approach is to gather relevant facts about all pending gun legislation, and about all loons shooting up crowds. At any given time there is some arguably notable gun legislation pending and scheduled for a vote in the near term. When some loon snaps, and major news outlets sensationalize the fact that he did something horrible "with a gun", the legislators that are facing an impending vote sway in the wind and push the vote over the edge.

It's not a conspiracy, it's a statistical likelyhood.

Occam's Razor: the simplest explaination is probably the correct one. Brainwashing a dozen loons to commit mass murder at politically convenient times is hard. Proposing a lot of bills and promoting a fitting one just after a loon strikes is easy. Go with the easy explaination; too bad it's not as sexy as the hard one.

(My apologies to the beautiful bird species that inhabits northeastern wilderness lakes.)
 
ctdonath,

You're right, nothing is proven by these incidents.

But, you must admit, the timing is odd.

BTW, I just had a mental image of a bunch of waterfowl shooting back at hunters... and making weird noises while they did it. Loons, indeed. :)

------------------
A vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil.
Vote Libertarian - For A Change.
 
I have already stated my view that most of these shootings are black ops of some type. The uniBomber was a MK Ultra mind control volunteer years ago at Harvard. This is now admitted. Feinstein, Davis and other lackeys are surely excited and are behind closed doors getting ready to blast the militiaS, survivalists, Christians, and others who wont KowTow to the elites. Gov. Davis has just blasted militias and survivalists for being the ones to blame. It is so clear that many of these shootings,ALL UNDER BIG COMRADES REGIME, are not random acts of violence.These so called hate groups of all races are heavily inflitrated by the Federales and are used to further central government aims.I dont think the average American has the intelligence to grasp this fact. By the way, the militias around the country are not hate groups ,but are not liked by the Feds because they are pointing out the many abuses of our present Federal Regime . I feel terrible for the many innocents killed and wounded. I only wish the truth would come out someday. but i am afraid slavery will come first unless the masses wake up.
 
the unusual numerous shootings not somehow being related is hard to believe.
its almost as astounding as the number of deaths and suicides around the clintons.
(see gennifer flowers website-wild stuff!)
i use to be a nice normal non-conspiracy guy, but the last 10 years or so have blown that all to hell!
 
No, correlation does not show causality, but all scientifc deductions start off as a correlation leading to a hypothesis leading to an investigation. No one said that it is FACT that these people are planted, but there is a correlation there and all options must be looked at.

I have to wonder why he had so much stuff in his van. I mean, do you carry around books all the time, or do you read them and leave them on the bookshelf? Personally, I don't keep multiple books and propaganda in my car, because usually when I am in my car I am driving it. Books and such stay at home. I just have to wonder why he happened to have "racist books" in his van, that just sounds silly, especially on his way to shoot a place up. Was he thinking that he might need to have some good reading so that as he was fleeing Police he could take a break? I mean, think about it, if you were going to go nuts and shoot a bunch of people, would you take along some political books and propaganda? Maybe he thought he could hand it out to spectators after he was caught? It just stinks of a setup to me, that the books were "found" to further the scare to the American public and equate gun-toting whackos with racism (ever tried to talk to most people about militias? The media has the public convinced that all militias are hate groups when that is far from the truth). And then there is the flak jacket(s)...something else that the anti-gunners want to outlaw and maybe the powers that be as well (flak jackets would make gov't control all that much harder since "political power comes from the end of a gun"). And he just happened to have multiple flak jackets as if he could wear more than one? And then the "survivalist food rations" he had. Why would he bring those? Just in case he needed a snack? Once again, this puts the image in people's mind to fear anyone or anything to do with "survival" and Y2K stuff. People already equate "survivalists" with guns and racists. They got all this in one fell swoop: a racist, "high-power gun" toting, flak jacket wearing, "right wing" whacko survivalist complete with propaganda, ammo stockpile and food rations all in one convenient van! It just stinks of too much convenience for me. Heck, I noticed that the media even tossed in the word "Christian" to round it all out. They have a "Christian", right-wing, racist, survivalist, anti-gov't, gun toting militia member to make sure they hit all the groups they hate and all the groups the gov't fears.

(I have to note here the humor that the Mediots are saying he used a "high power" assault weapon. A 9mm? hi-power? Ha! I guess that is why none of the 5 years olds died, because he used a "hi-power" weapon)


The hypothesis of these people being planted sounds pretty outlandish to me, and there would have to be a LOT of evidence before I even thought it possible, but we have no idea how deep these things go or what is going on out there. Heck, all we really know is what we hear through the MEDIA. For all we know, this Buford guy is some poor schmuck who pissed off the wrong Fed, was sitting in his living room watching the news, and someone decided to make him the fall guy, nabbed him and made up a story about how he turned himself in. As long as the media does not interview him (and even if they did, we only know what they tell us), we really don't even know if he did it, let alone any other whacky conspiracy theories. I am not saying I buy all this stuff, I am just saying that we never get the whole picture. Look at Waco, it is years later and we find out the media and Feds snowed us all over. At this point, I don't know what is going on, but I am hesitant to discard any correlation as impossible.


[This message has been edited by thaddeus (edited August 12, 1999).]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top