J. P. Sauer & Sohn Pistol History

[LesNessMaN]

The story I got about this gun was that it was owned by an SS general. How would I go about checking on the history of this pistol?

There are initials on the bottom of the grip that say RS.
The top of the gun says Patent J. P. Sauer & Sohn, , SUHL CA;. 7.65

The serial number is 457486

 

[Jim Watson]

It is very difficult to impossible to trace the use of a wartime military weapon.
The general rule in such matters is "Buy the gun, not the story."

There is a similar gun illustrated an discussed on this board at:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=357788

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Every engraved or plated gun to come out of Germany from 1910-1950 belonged to a WW 2 German officer!

 

[James K]

Every white Southerner I ever knew had an ancestor who was a general in the Confederate Army. Every WWII ETO bringback pistol was taken off a German general or field marshal.

I think I figured out why both armies lost - they had all generals and no privates!

P.S. The gun might have belonged to a German SS general (exept that the SS didn't have generals), but the holster probably belonged to an American cop. It looks like a standard police holster with a mag pouch sewn on.

Jim

 

[RJay]

Come on guys, every one knows. that the German army carried chrome plated guns Can't you just see it now? A SS officer stands up on the Eastern front, waves his chrome plated P-38, yells " Follow Me " and 10,000 Russian rifles zero in on the poor slob.

 

[m.p.driver]

Early war manufacture by having the safety on the slide,i think all their records were destroyed so findind information is probably all but immpossible.I had a second cousin who got into collecting german weapons in the early 50's
when people would throw in a Luger to sweetin the pot on a deal.He had a 38h,serial number 1,engraved with ivory grips with a gold swastika and couldnt find out who got it first.I could think of an individual right off but without the paper its all hearsay.But if youre interested i have a 1911 Colt that i was told was carried by Bonnie Parker,or was it Bonnie Hunt?

 

[sauerfan]

Early war manufacture by having the safety on the slide,i think all their records were destroyed so findind information is probably all but immpossible.I had a second cousin who got into collecting german weapons in the early 50's
when people would throw in a Luger to sweetin the pot on a deal.He had a 38h,serial number 1,engraved with ivory grips with a gold swastika and couldnt find out who got it first.

Hi m.p.driver,

Several things to mention:

1/No, it isn’t an early war Sauer H, but a late war. SN 457486 was made in 1944.

2/ No, Sauer’s records were not destroyed, they are still there, i. e. in the Suhl archive. But there are no special records about factory engraved pistols.

3/ Regarding Sauer H # 1: I can tell you, who was the first owner: a GI who ordered the engravings after “liberation” of the Sauer plant in April 1945. When US troops arrived in Suhl, thousands of half finished Sauer Hs were present. The were assembled for the GIs (serial number range 507.xxx to 513.xxx approximately). All these “GI souvenir” Sauers don’t have any military acceptance markings and most don’t have proof markings (eagle/N). When they came to half finished parts not having serial numbers, a totally new SN range began, starting with 1 ending at 700 approximately. Such pistols are shown in the book “J. P. Sauer & Sohn – A study on automatic pistols”, volume 1 by Jim Cate and Nico van Gijn. There are shown e.g. # 1 (!), #4, #22, #31, #32.

The # 1 shown in said book (page 366) is a plain variation and having no engravings at all. But maybe, the numbering in this chaotic time (April until July 1945) had additional number ones. There are several “GI souvenir” pistols of this period known having rich engravings made for some Chesterfields by German engravers.

You can easily distinguish an engraved “German SS general’s pistol” from a “GI souvenir” pistol: are proofs eagle/N present on frame and slide: then, it is maybe (!) an original engraving. But when no proofs are present: then the first name of the “SS general” was Joe, Mike or Bob.

Regards

Martin

 

[James K]

Is it possible that those pistols marked "Hermen Gorring" in electric pencil might not be genuine?

Jim