Iver Johnson's arms and cycle works
- Thread starter Jasun
- Start date
To all appearances, the gun is an Iver Johnson Small Frame, hammer type Safety Automatic revolver, First Variation. (The nomenclature is from Goforth, Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works Firearms 1871-1993.)
Those were made only in 1894, so the gun is an antique (pre-1899) under Federal law, and also is usually recommended for use only with black powder, though a very limited amount of firing with modern .32 S&W ammunition should not damage the gun.
There is a growing collector interest in I.J. revolvers, and I would guess at a retail value of $100-150. The problem is that few dealers are interested since no parts are available and any kind of warranty at resale would be impossible. The same problem would also apply to any broken or missing parts.
Jim
Those were made only in 1894, so the gun is an antique (pre-1899) under Federal law, and also is usually recommended for use only with black powder, though a very limited amount of firing with modern .32 S&W ammunition should not damage the gun.
There is a growing collector interest in I.J. revolvers, and I would guess at a retail value of $100-150. The problem is that few dealers are interested since no parts are available and any kind of warranty at resale would be impossible. The same problem would also apply to any broken or missing parts.
Jim
Driftwood Johnson
New member
Howdy
Iver Johnson revolvers were very popular inexpensive revolvers. The design of yours is what is called a Top Break because to load them you broke them open by opening the latch and rotating the barrel down. The ejector should pop up then snap back down again as you open the gun, throwing empty shells clear. Iver Johnsons were less expensive than Smith and Wesson Top Break revolvers of the same period.
Around 1900 Iver Johnson redesigned their revolvers specifically for Smokeless powder.
Look at the little owl on the grip. Notice he is facing forward. If you pull the grips off you will see the main spring is a leaf spring. These are indications that this is an older Iver Johnson made before the changeover to the Smokeless powder design.
This is a 38 S&W Iver Johnson Safety Hammerless designed to shoot Smokeless Powder. Notice the little owl is facing backwards. If I were to remove the grips the hammer spring would be a coil spring. Also notice the difference in the shape of the bolt locking slots on the cylinder. On the BP Iver Johnsons the hand prevents the cylinder from rotating backwards. On the Smokeless guns the bolt is captured by both edges of the locking slot to prevent it from moving. The Smokeless guns were made of a stronger steel to withstand the pressure and concussion generated by Smokeless ammunition.
Of course you are not going to be able to find 32 S&W ammunition loaded with Black Powder today, the only ammo you will find is loaded with Smokeless powder. Don't shoot it a whole lot and it will probably be fine, it has probably been fired with Smokeless ammunition at some point over the years.
Iver Johnson revolvers were very popular inexpensive revolvers. The design of yours is what is called a Top Break because to load them you broke them open by opening the latch and rotating the barrel down. The ejector should pop up then snap back down again as you open the gun, throwing empty shells clear. Iver Johnsons were less expensive than Smith and Wesson Top Break revolvers of the same period.
Around 1900 Iver Johnson redesigned their revolvers specifically for Smokeless powder.
Look at the little owl on the grip. Notice he is facing forward. If you pull the grips off you will see the main spring is a leaf spring. These are indications that this is an older Iver Johnson made before the changeover to the Smokeless powder design.
This is a 38 S&W Iver Johnson Safety Hammerless designed to shoot Smokeless Powder. Notice the little owl is facing backwards. If I were to remove the grips the hammer spring would be a coil spring. Also notice the difference in the shape of the bolt locking slots on the cylinder. On the BP Iver Johnsons the hand prevents the cylinder from rotating backwards. On the Smokeless guns the bolt is captured by both edges of the locking slot to prevent it from moving. The Smokeless guns were made of a stronger steel to withstand the pressure and concussion generated by Smokeless ammunition.
Of course you are not going to be able to find 32 S&W ammunition loaded with Black Powder today, the only ammo you will find is loaded with Smokeless powder. Don't shoot it a whole lot and it will probably be fine, it has probably been fired with Smokeless ammunition at some point over the years.
Driftwood Johnson
New member
Howdy Again
But how is somebody to know when a particular revolver was made? The three characteristics I described, the direction the little owl is facing, flat mainspring or coil mainspring, and shape of the cylinder locking slots will tell even the most inexperienced shooter whether it is a Black Powder gun or a Smokeless gun. These changes went along with the stronger frame for the Smokeless powder guns.
hunter44i8
Inactive
iver
I have a Iver Johnson that is a 38sw. It has the owl facing rear and a flat sprinf under the grips so i am confused as to if i can shoot smokeless powder. Any help would be appreciated.
I have a Iver Johnson that is a 38sw. It has the owl facing rear and a flat sprinf under the grips so i am confused as to if i can shoot smokeless powder. Any help would be appreciated.
If any one shows as black powder, assume it is black powder.
If you need to know for sure
Post what you find and hope to get a more detailed answer
Saw a nearly identical model for sale at a yard sale a few weeks ago. Cylinder lock-up and timing was downright unsafe, and the guy had a price tag of $200 on it. I showed him the issues with the pistol and told him it would be unethical to sale the firearm without disclosing those issues. I also told him that price was more than double what it was worth in the current condition. I don't think he cared. Oh well.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
A few years ago I bought one like that, in non-functioning condition, for $25. I didn't care that it's broken -- I wanted something to show students in my NRA Basic Pistol classes a real top break firearm. The fact that it's in an obscure chambering (.32) was an added bonus. My rule is that students aren't allowed to bring firearms or ammunition into the class, but there's always "that guy" who just has to bend the rules. And that's the same guy who would have a 9mm round in his pocket and would just have to see if it will fit in a demonstration gun that's being passed around the class.
Which is why for many of my classroom props I use either blue guns or non-firing replicas. But I haven't yet found a non-firing replica of a top break. (And, if they made one, it would cost a lot more than 25 bucks anyway.)
I found some dummy rounds for the little .32 top break, so I can actually demonstrate how it loads and unloads.
Which is why for many of my classroom props I use either blue guns or non-firing replicas. But I haven't yet found a non-firing replica of a top break. (And, if they made one, it would cost a lot more than 25 bucks anyway.)
I found some dummy rounds for the little .32 top break, so I can actually demonstrate how it loads and unloads.
Driftwood Johnson
New member
Howdy
Iver Johnson called them 'Safety' revolvers because they had a transfer bar to transfer the force of the hammer to a firing pin, much like modern Rugers.
For many years Iver Johnson had a marketing slogan called Hammer the Hammer to show how safe these revolvers were.
The reason they were called 'Automatic' was because opening the revolver automatically ejected the spent, empty shells. Just like with a Smith and Wesson Top Break.
