I've got this 1973 Marlin and have loaded 150 gr Sierra SP with imr 3031 and 165 grain Missouri lead ith h4895. It don't shoot for crap. Scoped and can't get good groups at 25 yards much less 100. The 165 are sized at .311. Supposed to be for micro groove rifling. Took scope off and tried another one and same groups. I'm overlooking something as I hear nothing but good reviews on the JM stamped rifles. Started powder loads at small to max on both bullets. Best groupings I've had was low plinking loads with the 165 with 10 grains of Unique and open sights. Any ideas or should I sell this off and chalk it up to the Remlin I had outshot it. Hate I traded it but JM was supposed to be cats meow. I bought it to hunt short range with but I wouldn't trust it. Barrel is lead free and copper free. I need some help please.
I've got Marlin JM stamped 30-30 issues
- Thread starter Wendyj
- Start date
FrankenMauser
New member
Try a different bullet.
You could consider fire-lapping if that doesn't work.
You could consider fire-lapping if that doesn't work.
Pathfinder45
New member
If I were in your situation, I would get a box of factory Winchester and/or Federal 170 grain cartridges for a baseline comparison against handloads using 170 grain Hornady and Sierra or Speer bullets. 4895 is a good powder, but maybe you should also try Winchester-748 or BL-C(2) or Leverevolution, for a ball-type powder alternative. Any of those three should work well, as there is little difference between them. From what I hear, micro-groove rifling can be challenging to adapt to cast bullets, so I would first establish whether the rifle will shoot jacketed bullets well before making an exhaustive attempt with cast bullets.
Biggest issue I see is the bullets are sized wrong and you are trying to push them too hard by using the wrong powder for cast bullets (cast bullets are NOT the same as jacketed bullets), your Unique loads are more like you want to go. Are you using gas checks? What loading manual are you using? Now you probably have leading in the barrel that will need to be removed before trying other ammo. As other said, try factory ammo before you decide it's the rifle's fault. If they're not loaded right, they won't shoot right. Reloading is half science half technique. A good reference for this would be Walt Disney's Fantasia "The Sorcerer's Apprentice".
I have two vintage 30-30 Marlin 336s (JMs, of course). One was made in 1960 and has micro groove rifling, the other was made in 1953 and it has the Ballard rifling. They both shoot very well using the 150 grn. Speer Hot Core Soft Point Flat Nose bullets; pretty much made for 30-30s. Right now, though, they're kind of hard to find; Speer says they're a specialty bullet with a potential run coming up shortly at the factory. Hope to see them on the shelf again soon.
Anyway, I bought both of these rifles through gunbroker about a year ago. The 1960 made rifle has a Leupold 4X compact on it, and is wonderfully accurate using the Speer bullets I mentioned earlier. I did try the Hornady 160 grn. FTX LEVERevolution bullets when I first got the rifle, and at first they were extremely accurate at 50, 100 and 150 yds. Then, and for reasons that still perplex me, those bullets went south and started key-holing from that rifle; no accuracy at all, none. I never had anything like that happen to me with any rifle I've ever owned before, and until that session, I'd never seen what a key-holed shot on paper looked like. Yup, perfect side-ways punched bullet holes through the target board. But those Speer 150 grainers brought back the accuracy on that rifle to where I'm completely satisfied with it's current performance. The last 100 yd. group I shot with that rifle/scope combo was 5 shots just a tad over an inch, and that was just rested over my day-pack. I'm totally good with that.
My old '53 vintage, Ballard rifling model 336, shoots the same ammo just as accurately, though with open sights my groups aren't quite as good (read nowhere near) at 100 yds...old eyes. But at 50-75 yards that rifle is "dead" even with my old eyes. Lately I've been shooting both those 336s because they are so much fun to shoot, and easy to reload for. I've been using CCI 200 LRs, and 34 grains of Varget for propellant and full length resizing for each reloading, along with a fairly good crimp on the cannelure; same ammo for both rifles. No need to change a thing there.
Maybe, as has been already mentioned, a different bullet is in order to try in your rifle. The literal "life to death to life" on my scoped 336 with a bullet change may be all you need to make you and your 336 happy. Good luck in your quest.
Anyway, I bought both of these rifles through gunbroker about a year ago. The 1960 made rifle has a Leupold 4X compact on it, and is wonderfully accurate using the Speer bullets I mentioned earlier. I did try the Hornady 160 grn. FTX LEVERevolution bullets when I first got the rifle, and at first they were extremely accurate at 50, 100 and 150 yds. Then, and for reasons that still perplex me, those bullets went south and started key-holing from that rifle; no accuracy at all, none. I never had anything like that happen to me with any rifle I've ever owned before, and until that session, I'd never seen what a key-holed shot on paper looked like. Yup, perfect side-ways punched bullet holes through the target board. But those Speer 150 grainers brought back the accuracy on that rifle to where I'm completely satisfied with it's current performance. The last 100 yd. group I shot with that rifle/scope combo was 5 shots just a tad over an inch, and that was just rested over my day-pack. I'm totally good with that.
My old '53 vintage, Ballard rifling model 336, shoots the same ammo just as accurately, though with open sights my groups aren't quite as good (read nowhere near) at 100 yds...old eyes. But at 50-75 yards that rifle is "dead" even with my old eyes. Lately I've been shooting both those 336s because they are so much fun to shoot, and easy to reload for. I've been using CCI 200 LRs, and 34 grains of Varget for propellant and full length resizing for each reloading, along with a fairly good crimp on the cannelure; same ammo for both rifles. No need to change a thing there.
Maybe, as has been already mentioned, a different bullet is in order to try in your rifle. The literal "life to death to life" on my scoped 336 with a bullet change may be all you need to make you and your 336 happy. Good luck in your quest.
JeepHammer
Moderator
Fire lapping is the VERY LAST resort!
Particularly with micro-groove rifling.
Just saying, it's very shallow rifling and some of the 'Fire Lapping' kits will screw up that fine rifling to the point of no return.
Particularly with micro-groove rifling.
Just saying, it's very shallow rifling and some of the 'Fire Lapping' kits will screw up that fine rifling to the point of no return.
I got the leading out last week. Took a while but bore shine, and Montana extreme and a chore boy brush and its spotless. Maybe not today. I'm using Lee, Sierra, and Hodgdon internet site for reloading. Bullets aren't gas checked. Pushing around 1500fps last week. Didn't chronograph today but had run a lighter load. Loaded up 20 of each and used federal primers on one batch. Cci on the other. Bullet size is .311. 165 grain Missouri white tail. Only cor locs I could find was 150 grain. I never chrono graphed the loads with 10 grains of Unique. More of a plinking round. When I spoke with Missouri bullet company they advised around 1700 fps was best accuracy in the micro groove but no guarantees due to they don't have equipment to test. Only what their return buyers tell them. Think I will slug barrel tomorrow after cleaning again.
It is my non expert opinion that the MicroGroove barrels just do not especially care for cast lead bullets. I shoot cast lead strictly in my 45-70, my new to me Ruger Colt 45 and several other guns but my 30-30 Marlins get Sierra 170 grain FP jacketed and Hornady 160 grain FTX.
Here you go, my JM stamp 1977 pre cross block safety 336T at 100 yards, just put the old Weaver 2.5X on her with Weaver rings, LR 160gr FTX home loads:
My 336SS REP stamped, at 100 yards, doing load development and a new scope to sight in:
Both rifles are extremely accurate and the 336SS is a better shooter overall than the Texan or at least it's equal in every way. Both are great rifles. Leupold 2X7, Warne Maxima QD rings, yes, they return to zero, over and over. And, just saying with cast lead FP Missouri Bullet 405 grain CLFP bullets my REP 45-70 will, if I hold still, clover leaf regularly three shots at 100 yards and certainly at 50 yards but it has the Ballard rifling and loves cast lead.
3C
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If it works with jacketed you can simply work on a load to try to copy what you are shooting. When I shoot cast, I clean out the copper and not only size the bullet, and if it fits, your bullet at .311 should probably be fine. Limitations of a bullet with a plain shank show up quickly for me without a gas check. Lubes used on most commercial cast bullets are sadly lacking. I would not consider it now, bit if I wanted to-use that bullet, I would lower the velocity to somewhere around 1000 to 1100fps and work on that. Firelapping has worked on my micro grooves just fine, so I wouldn’t worry about that if you really have the patience to pursue this. Limitations show up with leading shortly after you raise pressures and velocity. Placing a gas check on the bullet suddenly eliminates a good bit of this. Using a carefully developed load, your gun should shoot up to 2000 or 2100 FPS if it has a 1 to 10 twist. 1 to 12 twist like with a 336CB or an XLR, enables you to shoot cast at factory velocities.
13_C61701_D0.jpg[/img][/url]
Here is the Lyman 311041 with a gas check sized to .311 before lube. If cast soft enough, it
has made some devastating wounds on deer with pretty high velocity.(over 2400fps). My best load is a 200 grain RCBS gas checked flat point going 2350fps.
13_C61701_D0.jpg[/img][/url]Here is the Lyman 311041 with a gas check sized to .311 before lube. If cast soft enough, it
has made some devastating wounds on deer with pretty high velocity.(over 2400fps). My best load is a 200 grain RCBS gas checked flat point going 2350fps.Dr. A. I'm surprised you got the Lyman #31141.311041 (depends on when the mold was made) to shoot decently. off and on I've tried with two different molds plus a clone by NEI. I agree they should be a good bullet on game, well at least the should if I ever got them to shoot. 
The bullet
The bullet
WendyJ. Usually plain based bullets don't shoot all that well past about 1400 FPS. Nothing to protect the base. A bullet I do like not only in the 30-30 but in the .308 and 30-06 as well is the Lyman #311291. I have one load in the .308 that does 1.5 MOA at 200 yards.
I have loaded the 311291 to near factory velocity in several 30-30 rifles and there are a few dead deer that will attest to the effectiveness of that bullet.
I've used it in two Marlins with Microgroove rifling and the one thing I suggest is if you buy some, take one and stick it into the muzzle of your rifle. If it take a bit of effort and the nose is engraved by the rifling, good. If it's a snug fit without the engraving thats good too. If it's loose and wobbles slightly accuracy will probably not be all that good. Seat the bullet so that it slightly engages the rifling for best accuracy. Bullet should not too hard. Mine are at a BHN number 11 and shoot just fine. I haven't hunted with a 30-30 on years but when I did, powder of choice was IMR3031. These days a 30-30 is just a fun gun at the range. FWIW, my Marlin 336 averages 1.5 to 2.0" at 100 yards with a hunting lever load. The 336T was basically a 2.0" gun.
Paul B.
I have loaded the 311291 to near factory velocity in several 30-30 rifles and there are a few dead deer that will attest to the effectiveness of that bullet.
I've used it in two Marlins with Microgroove rifling and the one thing I suggest is if you buy some, take one and stick it into the muzzle of your rifle. If it take a bit of effort and the nose is engraved by the rifling, good. If it's a snug fit without the engraving thats good too. If it's loose and wobbles slightly accuracy will probably not be all that good. Seat the bullet so that it slightly engages the rifling for best accuracy. Bullet should not too hard. Mine are at a BHN number 11 and shoot just fine. I haven't hunted with a 30-30 on years but when I did, powder of choice was IMR3031. These days a 30-30 is just a fun gun at the range. FWIW, my Marlin 336 averages 1.5 to 2.0" at 100 yards with a hunting lever load. The 336T was basically a 2.0" gun.
Paul B.
I'm not sure I'm reading this right. I slugged the bore twice with oversized egg sinkers. Minimum reading.300. Max.306. I had to tap it in and used plastic hammer and brass punch until about one inch inside the muzzle. Rod pushed bullet through by hand with no tapping. I can see rifling all around the lead. That's measured with a caliper. I don't have a micrometer. I would have figured at least .308. My first time doing this so I done it twice to make sure of readings. Clean bore. Applied some Remington oil in barrel. Used Lee lube to lube the egg shaped sinker. Maybe the experts can chime in with some information.
jersurf101
New member
Isn't it pretty well known that Marlin's micro groove rifling may result in poor accuracy with cast bullets?
I would try some jacketed 150's.
My 1968 jm marlin is no tack driver but she stays in 2.5 inches at 100 yards with Hornady 150's and IMR 4895
I would try some jacketed 150's.
My 1968 jm marlin is no tack driver but she stays in 2.5 inches at 100 yards with Hornady 150's and IMR 4895
My 336's much prefer 170grn bullets over 150's... by a fairly big margin. I shoot cast in my newest 336... a 1973 JM. Was shooting it last week with 170grn GC cast bullets and IMRs 4198 and 3031 and it did very well... even with bullets at .309".
I wonder OP, what charge of H4895 are you using? I've never found MicroGroove rifling to be a problem, but you may have to tailor your load to get the most out of it.
I wonder OP, what charge of H4895 are you using? I've never found MicroGroove rifling to be a problem, but you may have to tailor your load to get the most out of it.