Since I just started reloading the 38 and 357 I am wondering if I should continue with the HP 38 I bought or go to H110 for 158 Hornady xtps and 250 Nosler sports bullets. I'm shooting out of a 3 inch 686 + and a Rossi lever action. I read some posts that hp 38 was too fast a burning powder for accuracy. I've been looking for AA 9 but no luck.
I've got a pistol powder question
- Thread starter Wendyj
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HP-38 (aka W231) is an excellent, thoroughly vetted propellent; and widely considered to be among the most consistent, clean burning powders of the pistol world. It's good stuff and I would see no reason to stop using it. It is a fairly fast propellant; and as such, has limitations. If you want more velocity than it delivers, then you'd would want to consider a slower powder.
That's going from one end of the burn rate spectrum to the other. H110 (aka W296) is really slow stuff and is best suited for (or dare I say, should only be used for) full power magnum loads.
I just got back from the range, shooting my 686+ 3"
Personally, I find a 3" bbl to be too short for H110. That's just my opinion, and others will disagree. But from my experience, shooting H110-loaded rounds through my 3" 686 is just kind of silly. The muzzle flash and recoil are tremendous. IMO, for H110 to act in a balanced manner, the gun's barrel length should be at least 6" (for 357 Mag - maybe 5" for 44 Mag). For my 3" bbl 686, I find Power Pistol to be a much better performer.H110 would be an excellent choice for your lever action rifle. You'll get maximum performance.
That's horse feathers. HP-38 is well documented to be a superbly accurate burner for target level rounds. And I have personally experienced this for decades now. If anything, the opposite is true: HP-38 has just a little bit of "slowness" to it, compared to its fast-burning contemporaries i.e. Bullseye, VV N-310, Nirto 100. And that touch of slowness tends to "settle" the bullet before it leaves the barrel - or some thought process like that. That part, I don't know. But I do know that HP-38 can't be beat for accuracy when loaded properly for its intended purpose.
Look for AA#7 - which is the velocity champ through my 3" Smith
Yes, H110 delivers less velocity through my 3" 686 than with AA#7. Conversely, H110 wins the velocity title though my 8-3/8" 686. More evidence (proof, actually) that H110 is too slow for a 3" bbl gun.Nick I really appreciate the info. I'll probably shoot more out of the lever until I see how it's going to shoot. Haven't had a chance to shoot it ove 20 yards yet. It doesn't chamber 357 really good unless you throw a really fast lever with it. I'll only be using the 686 for self defense but hope to shoot a lot more since I cut my ammo price by a great deal reloading. 7 grains of powder should last some time in a 7000 grain one pound can. Only other hand gun powders I've seen locally are one can of unique and one can of tite group. And of course the one can of h110. Not much to choose from. My Sierra manual gives a lot more powder options than the Hornady and Nosler manuals do. Just fooling around here I've already shot 80 rounds of 125 grain xtps. I had ordered the Nosler 158s last week and they just got here. Was going to pick up the 158 xtps tomorrow when I stop for more rifle powder. I'll have to chronograph the 3 inch smith. I've never given it much thought with factory ammo. I'm open to all suggestions as I've only reloaded for 5 rifle calibers.
Titegroup would be my last choice of powder to use with 158-250 gr. I would go with a Unique burn rate powder or slower. I wouldn't use H110 with 250gr bullets in a .357mag at all especially a 3" barreled one.
I've never heard of 231 being to fast for accuracy, that's a new one. It's certainly not a magnum powder but for lighter loads it's been working well for many decades.
I would still go with anything in the range of say BE-86, Unique, Power Pistol to say up to longshot with the 158 target loads and H110 up to full house magnum. I never loaded or even heard of shooting 250gr bullets from a .357 magnum and don't see how a bullet of that length could be effective with that small of a surface area on the base of the bullet pushing that much weight. The length alone would be almost out of the range of stabilization per rotation of rifling with a bullet that long.
But again, I said I've never used them, so maybe I shouldn't have said that.
250gr out of a .357 Magnum just doesn't sound right at all to me.
Let us know how they work.
I've never heard of 231 being to fast for accuracy, that's a new one. It's certainly not a magnum powder but for lighter loads it's been working well for many decades.
I would still go with anything in the range of say BE-86, Unique, Power Pistol to say up to longshot with the 158 target loads and H110 up to full house magnum. I never loaded or even heard of shooting 250gr bullets from a .357 magnum and don't see how a bullet of that length could be effective with that small of a surface area on the base of the bullet pushing that much weight. The length alone would be almost out of the range of stabilization per rotation of rifling with a bullet that long.
But again, I said I've never used them, so maybe I shouldn't have said that.
250gr out of a .357 Magnum just doesn't sound right at all to me.
Let us know how they work.
+1 for either W231 or Unique. I'm trending toward Unique. H110 is a hoot out of my 4" .41 mag, kind of a mini-flame thrower.
I'm rolling to .357 now and going with Unique because it will be for both rifle and pistol. I don't have a handle on what load has the best group so I'll go max -10%ish and call it good for the handguns and levers in the family. I'll crono it but I'm loading for family so too many guns to try and dial it in.
For home defense, I remain a factory round guy. Mostly.
I'm rolling to .357 now and going with Unique because it will be for both rifle and pistol. I don't have a handle on what load has the best group so I'll go max -10%ish and call it good for the handguns and levers in the family. I'll crono it but I'm loading for family so too many guns to try and dial it in.
For home defense, I remain a factory round guy. Mostly.
A 6" barrel is too short for H110, unless the object of the exercise is to blind and deafen everyone in the room and to set fire to contact range combustables ......
With 158 grain jacketedd bullets, 2400 will produce more velocity from a 6" barrel .357Magnum with less powder, and less sturm and drang in the process.
.... and anyone fool enough to try for top velocities in .357Magnum with titegroup, or any other fast, dense powder, for the sole reason that they can get 2 or 3x as many loads out of a pound of the faster stuff ...... deserves what they get. It's your gun, and your hand holding it...... hope you're lucky! ......but do try figuring out how many pounds of an appropriate powder you could buy with the cost of medical bills and a new gun figured in ........
Wendy,
I was starting to wonder about you. a 1-14 or faster twist may stabilize them but a 1 in 18 3/4 would be a little slow.
That makes more sense.
231 or H110 would both be fine out of your 686. Use the 231 for target and fun loads and the H110 for hunting loads.
I would use both powders and do in my .357mags with the appropriate 158gr bullets.
Your jacketed bullet are a shoe in for both.
I was starting to wonder about you. a 1-14 or faster twist may stabilize them but a 1 in 18 3/4 would be a little slow.
That makes more sense.
231 or H110 would both be fine out of your 686. Use the 231 for target and fun loads and the H110 for hunting loads.
I would use both powders and do in my .357mags with the appropriate 158gr bullets.
Your jacketed bullet are a shoe in for both.
I just got back from the range, shooting my 686+ 3" Personally, I find a 3" bbl to be too short for H110. That's just my opinion, and others will disagree. But from my experience, shooting H110-loaded rounds through my 3" 686 is just kind of silly. The muzzle flash and recoil are tremendous. IMO, for H110 to act in a balanced manner, the gun's barrel length should be at least 6" (for 357 Mag - maybe 5" for 44 Mag). For my 3" bbl 686, I find Power Pistol to be a much better performer.
The 3 inch will vent a lot of flame out the barrel but not much else. It's good in a longer bbl but for maximum loads which it is intended for. My favorite powder for .38s is SOLO 1000, followed by Unique and Bullseye.
Good luck.
The 3 inch will vent a lot of flame out the barrel but not much else. It's good in a longer bbl but for maximum loads which it is intended for. My favorite powder for .38s is SOLO 1000, followed by Unique and Bullseye.
Good luck.
I agree. I'm not a Uniquefreak, but it's a good intermediate speed propellant. Slightly faster than Power Pistol, but has a good fill rate. i.e. it's fluffy and takes up a lot of case space - which bodes well for revolver cartridges. Unique does well with 158 grain bullets; but really shines under 125's.
Heh
When I put 6" bbl as the minimum length for H110, I was being as kind as I could. I only use H110 for my 8-3/8" bbl 686, and 629. Both are pretty much safe queens, so my H110 (W296 actually) spends a lot of time collecting dust on the high shelf.
MarkGlazer
New member
I own the Rossi 92 and love working with it. For a 357 round I use IMR 4227, a 158 grain SWC cast lead coated bullet (Bayou) and I load to the midpoint. When I load a 38 round for the Rossi, I switch to Titegroup. Either powder works very well, very little recoil. Truly, the barrel of the gun barely rises.
I have no issues chambering an SWC bullet, makes no difference if it's a fast or slow action. I have read of difficulties chambering a round with the Rossi and the issue is always the bullet type. So, you might need to make a change as your bullet is the cheapest solution.
I also have a 357 pistol, Taurus model 66, 4 inch barrel. I only load with Titegroup and the recoil is substantial. I'll let the others on the board provide recommendations as the magnum is pretty much a safe queen these days.
Good luck.
I have no issues chambering an SWC bullet, makes no difference if it's a fast or slow action. I have read of difficulties chambering a round with the Rossi and the issue is always the bullet type. So, you might need to make a change as your bullet is the cheapest solution.
I also have a 357 pistol, Taurus model 66, 4 inch barrel. I only load with Titegroup and the recoil is substantial. I'll let the others on the board provide recommendations as the magnum is pretty much a safe queen these days.
Good luck.
Nick, my post re: H110 above was based upon an IDPA shoot I went to last minute ..... the only ammo I had handy was 100 rounds of max velocity 158gr XTP's ..... the first target was literally at contact distance, and because I arrived a little late, I was preceeded by 20+ shooters, all of which punched a couple of neat .35, .40 or 45 holes in the middle of the cardboard silhouette ...... the 0-down/A-zone was a mass of pasters holding the swiss cheezed cardboard together ...... at the beep, I drew, took a step back and cranked off two ..... the center of the target disappeared in a shower of smoking paster confetti ......
Unique
mmm, yeah. Too fast for full-throttle; I agree. But I've put 7.4 grains under a Berry's 158 PFP to yield 1084 f/s through said 686 3" bbl; and 1153 through my 686 4" bbl. Full-house? No. But a good, decent round with a clean burn, and headroom to go hotter. (And I've driven lead SWC's harder with Unique, but that's outside the scope of this post.)
I put 9.2 grains under a 125 JHP for 1315 f/s (3"); and it's an excellent round - especially for a shorter barreled piece. In 357 Mag, Unique finds a better home with lighter bullets, no doubt.
As far as the metering thing goes: It's not a good metering powder. But I manage to make it work. One thing I don't do with Unique is load it to the very top of the scale. I do work ups with a powder trickler, then back down a few 1/10ths for the production round. For instance, the above-mentioned 9.2gn under the 125's, were worked up all the way to 9.7gns trickled.
Heh You went to an IDPA match with full-power 357 Mag rounds?
I'm still laughing !!
mmm, yeah. Too fast for full-throttle; I agree. But I've put 7.4 grains under a Berry's 158 PFP to yield 1084 f/s through said 686 3" bbl; and 1153 through my 686 4" bbl. Full-house? No. But a good, decent round with a clean burn, and headroom to go hotter. (And I've driven lead SWC's harder with Unique, but that's outside the scope of this post.)
I put 9.2 grains under a 125 JHP for 1315 f/s (3"); and it's an excellent round - especially for a shorter barreled piece. In 357 Mag, Unique finds a better home with lighter bullets, no doubt.
As far as the metering thing goes: It's not a good metering powder. But I manage to make it work. One thing I don't do with Unique is load it to the very top of the scale. I do work ups with a powder trickler, then back down a few 1/10ths for the production round. For instance, the above-mentioned 9.2gn under the 125's, were worked up all the way to 9.7gns trickled.
Heh
You went to an IDPA match with full-power 357 Mag rounds?I'm still laughing
!!I shot quite a few rounds using 6.5 grains of th hp38 under a 125 xtps and the 158 Nosler out of the revolver. Nosler gets the go to for accuracy. I'm still waiting on the time to go get the 158 xtps. I set my Lee powder thrower and kept cycling until it dumped 6.5 every time. So the hp 38 meters very well. New with this so after charging and loading I weighed each bullet on the digital scale and was always within a tenth. The 38+ps I loaded cycle a lot better in the Rossie than the 357 does. Same bullets. Saw some 158 lwc at Acadamy but wasn't sure if they would cycle any better in 357 cases. I've already been through 98 primers and testing loads so this has turned out to be a lot of fun. Should give a lot more range time. Cost a little to start but the powder will last a good time and I still have 300 bullets and 250 brass cases. 85% off the brass is federal so I'm trying to stick with one case for awhile. Not sure what bullet might cycle well in the Rossi. It's fine if you lever fast and hard but hard to do at the range. Little thing throws brass 20 feet when ejected. And so I don't get slammed using the digital scale I am rechecking powder on the rcbs 505 just to be sure. So far the Frankford Arsenal digital seems consistent with the vernier scale. My Hornady scale takes forever to read one more grain. Rifle or pistol. Just cheap stuff I started with because of the pain in the butt Lee scale that came with the kit.