Last weekend on the LAPD Metro range with Lewis Awerbuck and Scott Reitz was most enlightening!
The shottie RULES for close encounters of the most serious kind.!
Buckshot is not an effective antipersonnel load beyond 25 yards MAX , out of a GOOD barrel and is very DANGEROUS to 200 yards or more!
A good barrel for buckshot can be ANY barrel off the shelf, from Cyl to mod in choke and is VERY Brand and load sensitive- more than any gun type I've seen! The best patterns by far were from a guy with an discount 870 express!
Rifled slugs RULE for everything I can think of other than worrying about thru and thru penetration in an apartment situation.
I CAN keep all my Rem Managed recoil Sluggers on a torso to 100 meters!
I Can keep all my slugs in your brain to 25 yards! MAYBE 50 yards- but I don't like maybes and I said ALL slugs.
Wonder of wonders a 12.5" Stock was PERFECT and DID NOT beat me up in 500 rounds- even from prone! Trick was to pocket it TIGHTLY!
870's rule the roost, even miss fed you can beat them into working!
Mossies 500 and 590 are viable.
Rem 1100's gave people problems
Benelli's Autos , from Marine Corp issue to M-1, M-4 Super 90's and what ever gave trouble -often VERY Scary!
My Benelli Nova, which they let me switch to the 2nd day has some problems so that I switched back to the good old 870 in a few hours. The problems were the front of trigger guard safety placement- not as safe and easy as behind the trigger! The lower loading port closed when action open was not cool- for me. The 14 pound trigger is rediculous, the looooong action stroke is ungainly as is the 14" stock length that will be very hard to shorten. It is wonderfully accurate with slugs- I got one hole groups at 75 yards (2-3")! It had very good buckshot patters too (I was using Rem Low recoil 00 buck)
Single point slings, especially with quick detachable buckles are really the HEAT, no sling binding forearm for me! Much easier and better balance all around! I think other users envied us with "team slings"
You GOT to have a dedicated light (IE surefire forend) on a pump gun and it is good to have on an auto. The pressure switch is not neccessary when firing(it blinks off under recoil sometimes) and putting it on on or off is better. The M-3 on the Nova factory mount or same on the Auto Benelli's was fine!If I build another 870 I will use the Sure fire pic rail foreend with a a Surefire Milennium combat light.
My shotgun pouch I had REECCE wear make was perfect BUT the load from the side saddle is the way to go- until thats empty! we had up to 50 shells on our person!
Brass to the top of the Side saddle and loading the open port from underneath with gun turned on it's axis to right is the way to go. But the bottom feed with enough room in mag is the way to "select slug".
Bead sights are ok IF they are on target ! Not much you can do to correct if they aren't. NOBODY hit the 110 yard target with a bead sight.
Scott Reitz is the ultimate DI ! His 180 popper course is a REAL workout -especially at night. Louis is , well, Yoda!
I qualified with a 96% on the LAPD course, BUT am more proud of my performance on the 180 Workout !
Bottom line the combination of Lewis Awerbuck and Scott Reitz (ITTS) is the ULTIMATE tactical shotgun course; the synergy between these two instructors is far and above ANY other instruction I've ever had and it pushed my body and mind (and equiptment) to it's limits.
My new name is "Run the bolt Gordon"
The shottie RULES for close encounters of the most serious kind.!
Buckshot is not an effective antipersonnel load beyond 25 yards MAX , out of a GOOD barrel and is very DANGEROUS to 200 yards or more!
A good barrel for buckshot can be ANY barrel off the shelf, from Cyl to mod in choke and is VERY Brand and load sensitive- more than any gun type I've seen! The best patterns by far were from a guy with an discount 870 express!
Rifled slugs RULE for everything I can think of other than worrying about thru and thru penetration in an apartment situation.
I CAN keep all my Rem Managed recoil Sluggers on a torso to 100 meters!
I Can keep all my slugs in your brain to 25 yards! MAYBE 50 yards- but I don't like maybes and I said ALL slugs.
Wonder of wonders a 12.5" Stock was PERFECT and DID NOT beat me up in 500 rounds- even from prone! Trick was to pocket it TIGHTLY!
870's rule the roost, even miss fed you can beat them into working!
Mossies 500 and 590 are viable.
Rem 1100's gave people problems
Benelli's Autos , from Marine Corp issue to M-1, M-4 Super 90's and what ever gave trouble -often VERY Scary!
My Benelli Nova, which they let me switch to the 2nd day has some problems so that I switched back to the good old 870 in a few hours. The problems were the front of trigger guard safety placement- not as safe and easy as behind the trigger! The lower loading port closed when action open was not cool- for me. The 14 pound trigger is rediculous, the looooong action stroke is ungainly as is the 14" stock length that will be very hard to shorten. It is wonderfully accurate with slugs- I got one hole groups at 75 yards (2-3")! It had very good buckshot patters too (I was using Rem Low recoil 00 buck)
Single point slings, especially with quick detachable buckles are really the HEAT, no sling binding forearm for me! Much easier and better balance all around! I think other users envied us with "team slings"
You GOT to have a dedicated light (IE surefire forend) on a pump gun and it is good to have on an auto. The pressure switch is not neccessary when firing(it blinks off under recoil sometimes) and putting it on on or off is better. The M-3 on the Nova factory mount or same on the Auto Benelli's was fine!If I build another 870 I will use the Sure fire pic rail foreend with a a Surefire Milennium combat light.
My shotgun pouch I had REECCE wear make was perfect BUT the load from the side saddle is the way to go- until thats empty! we had up to 50 shells on our person!
Brass to the top of the Side saddle and loading the open port from underneath with gun turned on it's axis to right is the way to go. But the bottom feed with enough room in mag is the way to "select slug".
Bead sights are ok IF they are on target ! Not much you can do to correct if they aren't. NOBODY hit the 110 yard target with a bead sight.
Scott Reitz is the ultimate DI ! His 180 popper course is a REAL workout -especially at night. Louis is , well, Yoda!
I qualified with a 96% on the LAPD course, BUT am more proud of my performance on the 180 Workout !
Bottom line the combination of Lewis Awerbuck and Scott Reitz (ITTS) is the ULTIMATE tactical shotgun course; the synergy between these two instructors is far and above ANY other instruction I've ever had and it pushed my body and mind (and equiptment) to it's limits.
My new name is "Run the bolt Gordon"