i have an ithica pistol grip shot gun. my dad has had since the 60's he got it off one of his friends 15 inch barrel nickle etched reciever it was made from the factory like not custom. I tried to look it up on the web and books and couldn't find anything about it if anyone knows something about it i would appreciate it.
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ithica pistol grip shotgun? need info
- Thread starter marlin
- Start date
That was called a car gun or road blocker or something like that. They were made in 12 ga and 20 ga. A friend of mine in California found one in his grandfather's stuff after his grandfather (former cop) died. We called Ithaca and asked if it could be refitted with barrels and a regular stock and were told to turn it in (we were both about 20 years old).
If the barrel is under 18 inches and the weapon is not registered as a short barreled shotgun then it's a big no-no.
Destroy it (or the barrel if you can remove the barrel) or turn it in, most LE including ATF is good about folks who find out they have an illegal weapon and want to surrender it, however again it could be a headache and the same could be acomplished with 5 min of work with an oxy-acetalyne torch.
Destroy it (or the barrel if you can remove the barrel) or turn it in, most LE including ATF is good about folks who find out they have an illegal weapon and want to surrender it, however again it could be a headache and the same could be acomplished with 5 min of work with an oxy-acetalyne torch.
Sounds like you have...
an old "Auto-Burglar"
I think originally made in the thirties for LEO and somewhat re-issued @ Col.R. applegate's behuest in the early 60's.
Made for easy storage in vehicle and gave LEO additional firepower.
Presently, are considered to be under National Firearms Act of 1930 (&GCA,68)
cannot be privately owned unless originally registered at sale.
ATFE is never going to allow a amnesty re-registration to make legal.
an old "Auto-Burglar"
I think originally made in the thirties for LEO and somewhat re-issued @ Col.R. applegate's behuest in the early 60's.
Made for easy storage in vehicle and gave LEO additional firepower.
Presently, are considered to be under National Firearms Act of 1930 (&GCA,68)
cannot be privately owned unless originally registered at sale.
ATFE is never going to allow a amnesty re-registration to make legal.
Bill DeShivs
New member
Ithaca made 2 guns of this type- the Auto & Burgular gun, a double-barrel 20 ga. pistol grip in 2 different versions. Barrels will be 10 or 12 inches.
And a pump-action "Shorty" in 20 ga. and 12 ga.
The A&B gun was made until 1934. The Shorty was made in the late 1970s, early 1980s.
There was a copy of the A&B made in 1969 by Holland Fire Arms.
None of these sound like yours.
The gun could be illegal, as stated.
Can you post markings, or pictures?
Bill
And a pump-action "Shorty" in 20 ga. and 12 ga.
The A&B gun was made until 1934. The Shorty was made in the late 1970s, early 1980s.
There was a copy of the A&B made in 1969 by Holland Fire Arms.
None of these sound like yours.
The gun could be illegal, as stated.
Can you post markings, or pictures?
Bill
Thats not the problem.
The barrels are too short, it does not matter if they came that was or not.
See if he has a tax stamp for it as a Any Other Weapon (AOW) or as a Short Barreled Shotgun. If he does then there might be a way for you to legally own it. Other wise there is really nothing you can do.
The shotgun is registered as a NFA item restricted the same way as a machine gun or silencer.
The barrels are too short, it does not matter if they came that was or not.
See if he has a tax stamp for it as a Any Other Weapon (AOW) or as a Short Barreled Shotgun. If he does then there might be a way for you to legally own it. Other wise there is really nothing you can do.
The shotgun is registered as a NFA item restricted the same way as a machine gun or silencer.
Does the barrel come off? maybe you could get a gunsmith to thread it and add some sort of permanent extension to bring it up to 18 inches with a overall of 26 (or is it 28) inches. If the barrel does not come off you are not going to find a gunsmith that will touch it.
Also you are in the USA right? If not the laws maybe total different.
The National Firearms Act of 1934 is what restricts shotguns to a barrel length of 18 inches, and regulates shotguns with barrels under 18 inches as either AOW or SBS. Without the tax stamp the gun is totally illegal in the US, your father and his friend both broke the law for him to have the gun now. If you have it your in the same position.
As far as the US government is concerned you might as well have a hand grenade or bazooka and or machine gun. The penalties for breaking the law (NFA) are VERY severe ranging from ten years in prison to half your family being shot in a raid.... Well just because thats not an official punishment does not stop it from happening but the prison time is real.
Also you are in the USA right? If not the laws maybe total different.
The National Firearms Act of 1934 is what restricts shotguns to a barrel length of 18 inches, and regulates shotguns with barrels under 18 inches as either AOW or SBS. Without the tax stamp the gun is totally illegal in the US, your father and his friend both broke the law for him to have the gun now. If you have it your in the same position.
As far as the US government is concerned you might as well have a hand grenade or bazooka and or machine gun. The penalties for breaking the law (NFA) are VERY severe ranging from ten years in prison to half your family being shot in a raid.... Well just because thats not an official punishment does not stop it from happening but the prison time is real.
KALIFORNIST
New member
I disagree with destroying it or turning it in.There is no way Id throw away any gun from my family that has history,legal or not.I would maybe remove the barrel and store at another location then the action and I also wouldnt go around showing people and taking it to the range.besides I would be beyond furious if 10 years later they changed the laws in favor of shorter barrels(highly unlikley but still).
Well Kalifornist that's very brilliant... go up the river with bubba for 10 years and after that NO GUNS EVER all for a gun that I can basically go out and buy in any pawnshop here in town minus the fact that the barrel will not be short for about the price of a new 870. Not to mention that the 3inch differance really does nto matter a whole heck of a lot, heck here in AZ anyone who wants to drop the money on a tax stamp can have short barreled gun however I see dang few folks who actually go to the trouble or expense to lose a few inches.
BAD ADVICE, we are not talking some kind of rare, one of a kind or storied piece here, and frankly even if you were talking about the grease gun the killed Rommel or something it's STILL not worth wrecking you life over, though in cases of RARE or HISTORIC unregistered class 3 items transfer to a museum CAN sometiems be arranged.
The chance of the law changing is about nil in regards to short barreled shotguns, heck there are designs from teh 20's or 30's that are collectable, single shot pieces that are still NFA items... and even if the law did change, go to walmart, buy an 870 and cut it as short as your heart desires.
BAD ADVICE, we are not talking some kind of rare, one of a kind or storied piece here, and frankly even if you were talking about the grease gun the killed Rommel or something it's STILL not worth wrecking you life over, though in cases of RARE or HISTORIC unregistered class 3 items transfer to a museum CAN sometiems be arranged.
The chance of the law changing is about nil in regards to short barreled shotguns, heck there are designs from teh 20's or 30's that are collectable, single shot pieces that are still NFA items... and even if the law did change, go to walmart, buy an 870 and cut it as short as your heart desires.
KALIFORNIST
New member
did you miss the part where I said remove the barrel and store in a sep location?and not show it to people or go to the range with it?do you have police going through ur stuff all the time or just every now and then?lets be realistic here.1 thing I am unsure of though is barrel length.can u get into trouble if all u have is a shortened barrel but do not have the gun it belongs to?Sure I can probably rebuy some things I have gotten from my family but I hold value in the history of some things.I have the .22 my grandpa taught me how to shoot with.If a law comes out next week that .22s are illegal should I run out and give it up?You do want u want with ur familly Heirlooms but I think Ill keep mine no matter what liberals say.Just gonna have to take precaustions.If My opinion is wrong by everyone elses standards please let me know and I will keep this type of opinion to my self.Also maybe what I am saying is best left unsaid and if so I will edit and deleate later.
If I found that particular gun or a machine gun in fact in my Fathers closet and wanted to keep it and not get into trouble, I would have it made permanetly inoperable, like remove the firing pins and welding the firing pin holes closed. Maybe have the chambers steel plugged and welded, anything to make it never useable again. Now you don't really have a gun any more, just some metal and wood that looks just looks like a gun.
KALIFORNIST
New member
ruger thats a good idea.I think I would go that route then if there was no other option.I have seen it done on old single actions that are used for decoration.
Bill DeShivs
New member
There is a lot of misinformation being spread here. It is not illegal to own just the barrel-as long as the receiver is not in your posession. Making the gun unserviceable will not circumvent the law. It will still be illegal. We don't even know if this gun is below legal length, or even what model it is. More information would help.
Bill
Bill
Last edited:
If my options are lose/destroy gun, or to have a tad more ugly I would take the ugly route. I know that a batch of saiga 12s came in with to short of barrels and they silver soldered a extra bit of metal onto them to make them legal. You may be able to do that as I said.
You can't "deactivate" the gun as the ATF says "once a gun always a gun".
Measure your barrel with a dowel rod down the barrel with the action closed (NO SHELLS IN THE GUN).
You can't "deactivate" the gun as the ATF says "once a gun always a gun".
Measure your barrel with a dowel rod down the barrel with the action closed (NO SHELLS IN THE GUN).
To streighten out a few things here...
Regardless of rifle or shotgun it is not explicitly illegal to own a short rifle barrel (under 16 inches) or shotgun barrel (under 18 inches), hece if you want to you can buy short 870 barrels relitivly easily on the open market (though remmington restricts them at the factory they tricle out rather stedially into the sommon market) or short AR 15 barreles / uppers all day long.
Anyone can also buy all the AR15 lowers or 870 recivers that thier little heart desires as long as you can legally own a title I firearm.
This is why in ads for short barreles or certin other things you see the expression "all NFA rules apply"; it's a subtle warning to NOT be an idiot.
Owning the two things together, i.e. the reciever and the short barrel EVEN if not assembled and EVEN if lacking all of the parts for assembly is ill advisable. It makes one guilty of "conspiracy" to assemble a prohibited firearm. Of course they have to make that conviction stick however as it's a matter of documentation of what you are in possession of it's a tough fight if you want to try and fight it. ATF got tired of folks who were not caught red handed with weapons in an illegal configuration when everyone knew darn well that was what was going on.
To deactivate the firearm the reciver would have to cut to ATF specs and a non-functional reciver substituted. Perminintly attaching a barrel extenshion has some merit if one wanted to spend the money and could figure out a way to do it in a functional and decent looking manner. One way might be to put a duck bill spreader on it (makes the shot gun pattern fan shaped for greater spread).... China Lake in the 60's developed this combat shotguns and at liest one SEAL used it on a 37, a few years ago I saw a company was making one in all steel.. not out of tubular stock like they were made in the 60's but out of a billiet of steel. Not sure if they are still out there and don't knwo how one would fashon one without specs but woudl be an intresting and historic idea.
And Kalifornist, no I do not routinly have the police searching my house, however I also have an acute sense of the cost / benefit curve in life and unregistered short barreled shotguns simply fall off this curve in every manner I can think of no matter how you stack it.
Regardless of rifle or shotgun it is not explicitly illegal to own a short rifle barrel (under 16 inches) or shotgun barrel (under 18 inches), hece if you want to you can buy short 870 barrels relitivly easily on the open market (though remmington restricts them at the factory they tricle out rather stedially into the sommon market) or short AR 15 barreles / uppers all day long.
Anyone can also buy all the AR15 lowers or 870 recivers that thier little heart desires as long as you can legally own a title I firearm.
This is why in ads for short barreles or certin other things you see the expression "all NFA rules apply"; it's a subtle warning to NOT be an idiot.
Owning the two things together, i.e. the reciever and the short barrel EVEN if not assembled and EVEN if lacking all of the parts for assembly is ill advisable. It makes one guilty of "conspiracy" to assemble a prohibited firearm. Of course they have to make that conviction stick however as it's a matter of documentation of what you are in possession of it's a tough fight if you want to try and fight it. ATF got tired of folks who were not caught red handed with weapons in an illegal configuration when everyone knew darn well that was what was going on.
To deactivate the firearm the reciver would have to cut to ATF specs and a non-functional reciver substituted. Perminintly attaching a barrel extenshion has some merit if one wanted to spend the money and could figure out a way to do it in a functional and decent looking manner. One way might be to put a duck bill spreader on it (makes the shot gun pattern fan shaped for greater spread).... China Lake in the 60's developed this combat shotguns and at liest one SEAL used it on a 37, a few years ago I saw a company was making one in all steel.. not out of tubular stock like they were made in the 60's but out of a billiet of steel. Not sure if they are still out there and don't knwo how one would fashon one without specs but woudl be an intresting and historic idea.
And Kalifornist, no I do not routinly have the police searching my house, however I also have an acute sense of the cost / benefit curve in life and unregistered short barreled shotguns simply fall off this curve in every manner I can think of no matter how you stack it.
Marlin,
Not trying to embarrass you, but you do have a highly illegal weapon (if the barrel's under 16 inches) that can land you with a federal prison sentence, hefty legal bills, and the loss of your rights to possess ANY firearm for the rest of your life.
You may be able to hide it, or hide the parts, but my best advice would be to get rid of it. If the ATF people, or local law enforcement, find you in possession (even if the parts are disassembled), it is no legal defense under federal law that you did not cut the barrel back. The issue will simply be that you have a longarm with a barrel length that required registration and a tax stamp, and neither was done anywhere along the way. As a retired LE, I can tell you that totally unforseeable occurances (fire, earthquake, burglary, etc.) frequently bring "hidden" things to the attention of the police in ways you'd never even think about.
The ATF will not allow you to register it in your name, it's beyond reason to think the laws governing that class of firearm will loosen, and you may have a hard time finding a qualified gunsmith who'd work on it to modify the barrel.
I'm all for keeping treasured family heirloom guns in the family, but you have to balance out the equation, and in this case it would not balance for me. The risk is not worth it.
Denis
Not trying to embarrass you, but you do have a highly illegal weapon (if the barrel's under 16 inches) that can land you with a federal prison sentence, hefty legal bills, and the loss of your rights to possess ANY firearm for the rest of your life.
You may be able to hide it, or hide the parts, but my best advice would be to get rid of it. If the ATF people, or local law enforcement, find you in possession (even if the parts are disassembled), it is no legal defense under federal law that you did not cut the barrel back. The issue will simply be that you have a longarm with a barrel length that required registration and a tax stamp, and neither was done anywhere along the way. As a retired LE, I can tell you that totally unforseeable occurances (fire, earthquake, burglary, etc.) frequently bring "hidden" things to the attention of the police in ways you'd never even think about.
The ATF will not allow you to register it in your name, it's beyond reason to think the laws governing that class of firearm will loosen, and you may have a hard time finding a qualified gunsmith who'd work on it to modify the barrel.
I'm all for keeping treasured family heirloom guns in the family, but you have to balance out the equation, and in this case it would not balance for me. The risk is not worth it.
Denis