ITAR license

[ibfestus]

A few weeks ago we were told that if you were a gunsmith and drilled and tapped a rifle for a scope mount, you needed a ITAR $1,250 license. There were people claiming their businesses were destroyed and they were bankrupted by this new requirement.

Question??? How many gunsmiths that you know have been affected by this draconian law? I personally know several gunsmiths that have never heard of this law.

 

[JoeSixpack]

Im not sure, I am a bit confused by Itar also.
However I was under the impression it governed export from the US.. so in country work I would not think to be a problem.. but I could have that totally wrong.

 

[HiBC]

Its not that simple.Domestic only gunsmithing was involved. It was,IMO,more about registering/regulating and taxing everyone who had the skills,knowledge,and tools to work on guns as part of the (gasp) "Global Arms Trade"
You can search for the old threads to catch up.
Yes,there is,or was,a serious issue.
The initial status was Draconian in a vague,poorly defined way,and no doubt some smiths did close shop.
I do not know the current status

 

[FrankenMauser]

I have not looked into it recently, but I have also seen nothing that says the status has changed.


Just off the top of my head, I can think of at least eight gunsmiths that closed up shop and faded into the shadows, when faced with the mandatory ITAR registration. At least half were 'hobbyist' or hacks (Glock/AR/1911/10-22/Rem700 parts swappers) that just did side jobs.

But one of them was a very serious rifle builder, and my favorite 'smith. (I miss him. Other people suck. I need a hug.)
He just figured that he should give up on the firearms regulations and BS, spend more time on the heavy machining business, and make far more money.

 

[dogtown tom]

ibfestus A few weeks ago we were told that if you were a gunsmith and drilled and tapped a rifle for a scope mount, you needed a ITAR $1,250 license.

First, the State Dept came out with its current interpretation of manufacturing activities under ITAR over a year ago.
Second, ITAR registration is not a $1,259 license, but a yearly registration fee of $2,250 (currently).

There were people claiming their businesses were destroyed and they were bankrupted by this new requirement.

If $2,250 destroys your business and bankrupts you..........you aren't really doing that much "business". As with all business expenses, you pass it on to the customer.

Question??? How many gunsmiths that you know have been affected by this draconian law?

All of them.

I personally know several gunsmiths that have never heard of this law.

So do I.

 

[dogtown tom]

JoeSixpack Im not sure, I am a bit confused by Itar also.
However I was under the impression it governed export from the US.. so in country work I would not think to be a problem.. but I could have that totally wrong.

ITAR covers a number of manufacturing activities. It also covers firearm imports and exports. About the only thing not covered by ITAR is sporting shotguns.

FrankenMauser .....I can think of at least eight gunsmiths that closed up shop and faded into the shadows, when faced with the mandatory ITAR registration. At least half were 'hobbyist' or hacks (Glock/AR/1911/10-22/Rem700 parts swappers) that just did side jobs.

"Swapping parts" is not currently regulated by ITAR.

 

[FrankenMauser]

"Swapping parts" is not currently regulated by ITAR.

You appear to have missed the common sense kiosk and need assistance.

Let me help a little bit:
Think of "Parts Swappers" as a category of low-skilled gunsmiths that primarily just swap parts, but still do some machining; rather than a definitive act describing the only type of work done by a person or group of persons engaged in the profession.

 

[dogtown tom]

FrankenMauser

Quote:
"Swapping parts" is not currently regulated by ITAR.

You appear to have missed the common sense kiosk and need assistance.

Let me help a little bit:
Think of "Parts Swappers" as a category of low-skilled gunsmiths that primarily just swap parts, but still do some machining; rather than a definitive act describing the only type of work done by a person or group of persons engaged in the profession.

I missed the common sense kiosk? Wow. What a great putdown coming from someone wholly ignorant of ITAR.

Before putting your foot in your mouth again, try reading a little bit about ITAR and the DEFINITIVE ACTS that the State Dept describes.
Start with this:http://pmddtc.state.gov/compliance/Applicability%20of%20the%20ITAR%20Registration%20Requirement%20to%20Firearms%20Manufacturers%20(Publish).pdf

1. Registration not Required – Not Manufacturing: In response to questions from persons engaged in the business of gunsmithing, DDTC has found in specific cases that ITAR registration is not required because the following activities do not meet the ordinary, contemporary, common meaning of “manufacturing” that DDTC employs in implementing the ITAR and, therefore, do not constitute “manufacturing” for ITAR purposes:
a) Occasional assembly of firearm parts and kits that do not require cutting, drilling, or machining;
b) Firearm repairs involving one-for-one drop-in replacement parts that do not require any cutting, drilling, or machining for installation;
c) Repairs involving replacement parts that do not improve the accuracy, caliber, or other aspects of firearm operation;.......

That means "part swappers" like Glock Armorers do not have to register for ITAR. Neither would 07FFL's who assemble AR's from parts manufactured by others.

 

[TXAZ]

Ibfestus,
This is reeeel easy.
If your primary business isn't ITAR related, then you can't afford to be in it.
Forget the measly annual registration fee. You need lawyers to advise on weekly changes and updates to the ITAR. And you'll need investigators to ensure the guy you think you're selling to is the actual guy you're selling to. And that's in every country you'll do business.
And you'll need a lobbyist/ gladhander, to make sure the Dept of State doesn't run over you by surprise.
Whether you like it or not, those are the facts of life for ITAR businessmen.

(I used to be in the ITAR biz for $$$$ items and systems)

 

[Evan Thomas]

Too much snark, too little content. This one is done.