It is sad for all the teenagers in todays society.

B

BigDawg

New member
Its sad I got to grow up in this day and age and have to actually worry about this stuff as a teenager it actually kinda bugs me...
I am Jealous of all the folks that grew up when violance was low and partying with friends was the safe and fun thing to do. You people are very lucky, I understand that times changed but why or how did they change to come to something like worrying about making guns, Or DNA tests why should we ever have to worry about this. I know I would like to continue growing up In a free country. But how, how do you consider this being free. When you got to tell the government every little thing you do, Like buying a firearm. It just makes me sick, And to think of what it is like for me facing this at 19 years of age. I feel for the litte children that has not a chance to even see my point yet. What can we do to change this, there has to be something. Todays society Is ridiculous, Back when you <older folks> was growing up You didnt have to worry about gettin shot at in school. You didnt have to worry about walking down the street in your home town at midnight. Today I hear that in my little town of Walnut Grove Missouri. There is gun threats here at the school, I mean seems like just yesterday here you could leave your front door open and not have to worry, now you do. Anyways Please feel free to express any opinions.

DJ.

[This message has been edited by BigDawg (edited September 30, 2000).]
 
BigDawg, the number one thing to do is VOTE. You're 19. VOTE. Heck, if you have ties in Chicago, vote TWICE!

Yes, things are different, but people like me are counting on young 'uns like you to take up the torch as we fade away. Please don't think that I'm rushing into the fading mode, but if the world goes berserk, I'll do my best to make sure you have something left with which to fight.

Plan ahead.
 
BigDawg,
You have to do the same balancing act all of us old farts have done since we were pups. With every generation the tight rope changes height but it's still the same act.

In some ways things are worse today because people have fewer compunctions about doing whatever they want for instant gratification without working as hard for it as the old farts. I speak in the general sense and not towards individuals when I say this. When the masses don't get instantly what they want they have even fewer reservations about taking ridiculously extreme leaps into retribution- either physical violence or litigation.

This is caused, perversely, by the fact that in some ways things are much better today than they were when the Jurassic Generation had just hatched. The economy is booming so there are plenty of jobs, we are sitting here on the Internet which has boundless possibilities, technology, medicine... are all at a level which constantly astounds us old farts. That level of techno/economic comfort also allows for the disciplinary leeway to expand, experiment, and allow for greater intellectual freedom- which leads to the problems of your generation. When something is cheaper people tend to value it less. Old people are tight wads because a dollar bought more back when and it took us longer to earn one. I think it was Piaget (somebody refresh my memory) who came up with the pyramid of needs, the lowest being food, shelter, and such which tied into a greater need for basic thought processes and social discipline: at the top was artistic expression and abstract thought, reachable only after you had fulfilled the baser needs. It's hard to give a crap about the nature of man when you're stomach is rumbling. When your generation has your basic needs met you can lark off after more complex subjects.

I think it was the same with the hippies: the normalcy and comfort of the 50s allowed for the excesses of the flower children. The same thing never could have happened during the Great Depression.

I think the rub is that today's greater opportunities require even greater individual application of morals... a sense of duty and honor which is NOT being instilled in a large segment of today's kids. Greater power requires greater ethics or it will lead to greater abuses and greater consequences in my humble opinion. You have to balance how far you are willing to go to experiment with social structure, technology, etc... which always includes some factor of risk. Oppenheimer upped the ante when his team invented the A-bomb. Here we have a marvelous energy resource if used responsibly but which could also destroy the world. It was the tightrope we walked. The pot gets richer with the inclusion of cyberspace, cloning, genetic manipulation, and all the other nifty but inherently risky developments. The stakes are higher but it's the same game. The good news is that I see a lot of my students (I teach high school physics) who have realized this and are conciously developing moral and ethical discipline. The pendulum swings.

Gun rights are a perfect example of what I am saying. At one point you could buy a THompson submachine gun from hardware stores. You could buy handguns from department stores and the average sproting goods store. A lot of people think that nowadays there is no need for average people to own firearms because we have a sufficient military to handle foreign enemies, government agencies to handle domestics, and police to handle the garden-variety thugs. My personal opinion is that these people are deluded by a sense of comfort which stems from a low crime rate resultant from the economic boom in this country. Things could change rapidly. It is our moral imperative to be prepared for such a change so that the next generation not suffer from our lack of forsight. It is also our responsibility to be able to protect ourselves NOW to help maintain the level of prosperity and allow for its increase.

What I'm trying to get across is this: it's the same dilemma every generation faces. It's the same dance but while we played Hendrix or Van Morrison, you guys play , well, boy bands.
Boy bands? Nevermind, the world is going to He!! in a handcart. Batten down the hatches!!!Brittany Spears is the daughter of Satan! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!The barbarians are at the gate and they're singing in synch!!!
Forgive the ramble- the baby didn't sleep at all last night.

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Those who use arms well cultivate the Way and keep the rules.Thus they can govern in such a way as to prevail over the corrupt- Sun Tzu, The Art of War

[This message has been edited by Apple a Day (edited September 30, 2000).]
 
BigDawg

I'm not that much older than you, say 13yrs or so. When I was in H.S. a neighboring school did have a shooting. a pupil killed the principle and a teacher.It did'nt make the brokaw news or anything like that And as a comunity there was a outcry to prosecute the boy that did the shooting. After, that was that no lingering on for months about it we went on with life. He got senteced for the max time and everyone was happy (well almost).

Nowdays we linger on every crime that a teen does and give three wks of counsiling and make sure no one forgets it for 5 or 6 months. It will more than likely make cnn or the brokaw news and will be diseceted for weeks afterwards.

I also think that today kids are used to getting everything they want. If they don't get it they steal or rob for it,not all teens but just enuf to make it a generalization. I grew up wondering about the Russians and nukes.I listened to music that did'nt have the f word every second sentance. My heros were Jimmy Stewart,John Wayne,and Clint Eastwood. Not Snop doggy dog and a bunch of coked up lets kill a cop or at least get arrested types.

Most kids of today havent lived thru a hard time. My Grandparents went thru WWI and WWII the dust bowl and the Great Depression. My parents Went thru Korea,Vietnam,and the cold war.

I have went thru Grananda altho that wasn't that bad,the Iran hostages,Beruit and seeing the Marines killed. The first lift off of the Discovery and the explosin of the Voyager,Black Mon. and hearing about the suicides of people thinking it was the Great Depression again. The invention of the modern puter and y2k.

Todays kids I think have a different view of the world because of what we and the gov. have done for them or to them. Guess it just proves the old saying of what you do today effects the children of tomorrow.

Just my random thoughts Poacher.
 
Big Dawg, I understand and agree with most you say I am soon to be a father of 3 teenagers. I graduated high shool in 72. One thing I can tell you that would have given your generation the "fire" to rebel is the fact that you don't have to pass a Constitution Course in order to get in to high school. I can still remember most of the preamble of the Constitution, and a good part of the Gettysburg address. Ask your self why? Because they don't want you to know your rights. The crap going on with the highschool zero tolerance policy is a great example. Many letters have been written by local high shool students who blindly accept the illegal search of their cars, have objects, subjectively confiscated or face expulsion for having a chain in school. I can't belive the students don't organize and protest. What is more unbeliveable to me is that their parents don't see it this way. I did a little research and found that my wife and I started our family at 27, much later than most and the Constitution requirments were taken out in the mid to late 70's. What did we get. You seem to be a bright young man (because you are here). I urge you to take what you learn here, study the Constitution and the Federalist papers and tell all of your friends. And by all means VOTE!
 
DJ,

I'm not too much older than you (a few years shy of 30), and I know exactly what you're talking about. I grew up in the suburbs but could ride my bike MILES away from my house at age 7 or be gone all day down at the creek and not have to worry!! Nowadays, I don't feel comfortable letting MY 7yo go more than a few houses down on her bike. Sad...

I think it all boils down to people's lack of morals these days, and irresponsible parents (I guess the 2 go hand in hand). People aren't teaching their kids respect for others and respect for elders! Instead it's "if it feels good, DO IT!" People today are more concerned about "self-esteem," and "self" in general than they are the welfare of others. We live in a very self-centered society.

My grandmother was born in 1907 and my grandfather in 1895, now THEY knew about hardship! We have it so easy these days in this country. Everything is so convenient. Kids (as someone else said) get what they want, when they want it and aren't made to WORK for anything!

I pulled Devanne out of public school because of all the crap going on today and she's a much happier child now at home w/ me. Bottom line: When your child is born, teach him/her VALIUES (I'm sure you will) and teach accountability!

Anyway, sorry for the rambling. It's sad, what's happening in this country and I could go on and on for HOURS! (heck, I could write a book about all that's wrong w/ the USofA). :)

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Liberty or death, what we so proudly hail... DON'T TREAD ON ME!!-Metallica

"The best way to deal with a [criminal] with a gun, is to say, 'I know you're upset.'...Compassion is the answer...Try to be compassionate with them and relate to them." -Jessica Flag, MMM
 
Darthmaum,
You clobbered it. Don't rely on the public schools, MTV, or the government to teach your kids morals. It is the EASY way but you won't like what you get.
Teach your kids morals. Teach them responsibility. Oh, and teach them to shoot. ;)
my two cents.

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Those who use arms well cultivate the Way and keep the rules.Thus they can govern in such a way as to prevail over the corrupt- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
 
Like wow! I am impressed in the responses I got. Well on the subject of kids gettin what they want when they want I was one of them. But I didnt get out and start shooting or stealing. I always kept my morals in hand. But I partyed and had a good time I never let it get out of control. Though I feel if I would of had to work for alittle more when I was younger I wouldnt have such a hard time in life right now. But I do love my mom and I think my mom has raised me right. And I knew what the belt was also when flubbed up. But I think alot of the meaness out of todays teenagers and kids, is because the parents are not responsible at all. My concerns is that by the time I get to become a full adult. And start to understand everything. I wont have no rights left to understand. AND YES I WILL VOTE....

DJ.
 
BD,

Winston Churchill said that if you were 20 and were not a liberal, you didn't have a heart; if you were 30 and were not a conservative, you didn't have a brain. No offense intended about the heart, but rather a compliment, as your beliefs and your presence here show that you are at least a decade ahead of the vast majority of your peers in terms of intelligence and wisdom.

You probably don't know who Robert Bork is, but he is a former federal judge who should be on the Supreme Court right now, but liberal opposition in the mid-eighties was too much to overcome. He has written a couple of books on conservatism, and he was a Law Professor at Yale University in the sixties. As the only conservative there, he was flabbergasted at how the liberal administration of the university bent over to the demands of the "radicals". He goes on to state that if it were not for two influences on his life as a young man, he could be right there (mentally) with them. The first was the school of hard knocks/reality hosted by the U.S. Marine Corps. The second was an undergraduate education at the University of Chicago, where, he says, they taught him how to think. By that he means they taught him reason, logic and truth in a conservative atmosphere. The educational system in this country, both at the secondary level and college/graduate levels has become so twisted and diluted because of an emphasis on womens', minorities' and gays' rights that the liberals, yes, they DO control the educational system, have almost written the history books. I have read that there are high school history books on American History that focus on the above mentioned "rights" and all the touchy-feely things the 60s brought us, and make only a brief mention of the U.S. Constitution, the founding fathers, etc.

Good luck and saty on the right path,
pojim
 
I feel bad for today's kids, not only because of gun control and the higher level of violence, but also for the things they can't do. Take cruising, for example. In most locales today it's illegal, but that's how we filled our Friday and Saturday nights. Bumper-to-bumper cars--and some really sharp ones at that--from 6 o'clock till near midnight. Guys ogling the girls (that's how I met my wife), and any fights were with fists on a side street. It really was like "American Graffiti." I don't know how it all changed, but I'd wager that any teen today who had a taste of that time would trade all the video games in the world to go back to that time.

I certainly would.

Dick
Want to send a message to Bush? Sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/monk/petition.html and forward the link to every gun owner you know.
 
You know BigDawg. I think it all really boils down to taxes. When my dad grew up, one of his parents could afford to stay home and properly raise him, at the very least through his formative years (1-7), and they both had more time to pay attention to what was going on in his life. Now both parents working isn't even enough sometimes, and so it's a pain to actually be there for your kids. 45% of some people's incomes vanish to the government, and what do they get for it? They get picked on and bullied, that's what.

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The Alcove

I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 
BD,
We got this way because the people valued freedom without responsibility. Our society decided that there were no moral absolutes and, therefore, right or wrong depended upon the circumstances. Further, that each individual had the right to decide for himself what is right or wrong, and no one has the right to impose his values upon anyone else. The young were/are taught that they should not allow parents to impose their values upon the children, regardless of the age of the children. This nation has departed from the principles and precepts which were the basis of our laws and which made this nation a great nation. We now have unparalleled prosperity. Yet we have less freedom than at any time in history. The govt intrudes in the lives of families, including the discipline of children. When I was a boy of 10 years, my grandmother borrowed $7.50 and I, with a 12 yr old friend, walked 3 miles to Atlanta, Tx and bought (notice there was no adult with me) a Rem 510 Targetmaster .22 RF single shot rifle. We walked back home and the next day I bought a box of ammo and began my hunting career. That was in late 1941 or early 1942. I wasn't afraid to be out at night. My sister, who is two years younger than me, and I would get on a Trailways bus and ride from Texarkana to my grandmothers without any adult accompanying us. We could go to the movies on a city bus at night and return at night alone. My only fear was that the Wolfman would jump out after me when I had been to a scary movie. We did have laws that restricted certain things that are not restricted now. But, do we have more liberty now? NO. We have abandoned the moral values with which we began as a nation. The liberals claim to make us more free, but the real result is to make us more in bondage to the government and PC rules. I don't envy you who are young. I hope that we can reverse the trend that we have seen for the past 40 or so years. It won't happen with people like Al Gore and the liberal machine. Regards, Jerry

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Ecclesiastes 12:13  ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14  For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
 
BigDawg, I'm a young guy in my early twenties, and the prospect of the future frightens me. I know it sounds sad, but will I ever be able to have children? What struggle awaits? Worse yet, what if there is no struggle, only descent into bondage?

Who knows what kind of world our generation will create. Because in the universities, where the upper echelon is educated, to deviate from the PC party line is utter heresy, you are painted as a bigot and an enemy of the people. My friends proudly proclaim they are socialist, and I ask them incredulously, "You actually admit to that?" Some sort of debate usually follows, where they illustrate a complete lack of information and critical thinking skills. But somehow I always lose in their eyes. Go figure.

If you haven't already BigDawg, read 1984 by George Orwell, and Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. Crucial reading in today's society, they are the two greatest books I have ever read. THEN tell us where you think we're going!

- the Ex-Pinko -
 
I am just like tottaly blown away on how my post has been answered. I am glad you all can see my point, and not critize.

Thanx
DJ...
 
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