Issues trying to work up 50-52 gr .223 loads help

L

Lange

New member
Trying to work up a few lighter .223 loads. Have tried Benchmark and H335 and wasn't really doing the trick accuracy or performance wise. Benchmark was accurate but at a max load in Hornady manual was getting only 3100 FPS for a 50 grain vmax. Trying 52 gr Hornady match with both those and those did not shoot well. Could be the bullet but figured I'd try another powder. BLC-2 though it seems is slower burning was listed for higher FPS in the manual with higher charges. Bought a pound to try hope it gives me some good results. Wondering if it may be an accurate powder?

Gun is VTR SS in .223. Gotten around 1/2 Moa to sub 1/2 with some factory loads and hand loads of 69 gr SMKs with Varget so I know the rifle can be accurate with what it likes.

I also realized the 52 vmaxes have a really good BC maybe try them with my 1-9 twist? Tried the 50s for a bit more speed.

Thanks all
 
A lot of people do like BLC2.
But the impression that I've gotten is that it's popular more because of being easy to work with and working well with gas guns, than because of accuracy potential (if you believe in such concepts).
I don't think I've ever used it.


(...) Benchmark was accurate but at a max load in Hornady manual was getting only 3100 FPS for a 50 grain vmax. (...)
Click to expand...
What's the problem?

You found a good load and moved on in search of velocity.
Sometimes, you get one or the other, not both.

A varmint bullet at 3,100 fps is just as nasty as it is at 3,300 fps.


You could play with seating depth a little bit with the other powders/bullets, to see if it's the jump to the throat that's causing issues.

You could also try some Speer 52 gr HPs. In my experience, they're very forgiving bullets (in regards to distance from lands, varying throat geometry, etc.) that have worked well for every .22 caliber cartridge I've stuffed them into (from a small cartridge that will remain unnamed, to .223 Rem, up to .220 Swift). They're consistent, easy to work with, tough enough for max velocity, and quite explosive.


For varmint loads, even more so than some other applications, I give priority to accuracy. Velocity is byproduct - be it high, low, or somewhere in between. I can compensate for trajectory, if I know where the bullet is going. I can't magically shrink groups to the size of a squirrel head, if I pushed for max velocity at the expense of accuracy.
 
I use the 53 Vmax in a 20" AR with H4895 and am getting a MV of 3420, so I'd agree that you velocity is a bit low. I'm guessing you're running a longer barrel too so your potential should be even better than what I'm getting.

H4895 doesn't meter great but on the other hand it has great temperature stability.

I do not know anything about the 52 Vmax, but the 53 breaks all the conventional thinking. So, check out the 53 too.
 
FrankenMauser said:
A lot of people do like BLC2.
But the impression that I've gotten is that it's popular more because of being easy to work with and working well with gas guns, than because of accuracy potential (if you believe in such concepts).
I don't think I've ever used it.


Quote:
(...) Benchmark was accurate but at a max load in Hornady manual was getting only 3100 FPS for a 50 grain vmax. (...)
What's the problem?

You found a good load and moved on in search of velocity.
Sometimes, you get one or the other, not both.

A varmint bullet at 3,100 fps is just as nasty as it is at 3,300 fps.


You could play with seating depth a little bit with the other powders/bullets, to see if it's the jump to the throat that's causing issues.

You could also try some Speer 52 gr HPs. In my experience, they're very forgiving bullets (in regards to distance from lands, varying throat geometry, etc.) that have worked well for every .22 caliber cartridge I've stuffed them into (from a small cartridge that will remain unnamed, to .223 Rem, up to .220 Swift). They're consistent, easy to work with, tough enough for max velocity, and quite explosive.


For varmint loads, even more so than some other applications, I give priority to accuracy. Velocity is byproduct - be it high, low, or somewhere in between. I can compensate for trajectory, if I know where the bullet is going. I can't magically shrink groups to the size of a squirrel head, if I pushed for max velocity at the expense of accuracy.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I guess the issue is more I got the 50s for some added velocity otherwise I was thinking to run 52-55. Also just the concern I'm running a 20" barrel and having slow velocities not just exactly with the 50s but with book loads listed at like 3300 and I get like 3100 or lower etc. I got get can't always have the best of both accuracy and velocity but I'd like to try to find a good point for both.

I will maybe try working with seating depths also may give the Speers a shot. Between these three powders something should work out I hope. Also worth noting with 26 grains of H335 in a 55 FMJ got over 3000 but was concerned the book said for that like 23.7 grains was needed...may just be conservative load.

HJ857 said:
HJ857
Senior Member

Join Date: January 9, 2007
Posts: 406
I use the 53 Vmax in a 20" AR with H4895 and am getting a MV of 3420, so I'd agree that you velocity is a bit low. I'm guessing you're running a longer barrel too so your potential should be even better than what I'm getting.

H4895 doesn't meter great but on the other hand it has great temperature stability.

I do not know anything about the 52 Vmax, but the 53 breaks all the conventional thinking. So, check out the 53 too.
Click to expand...

Yeah the barrel is a 22" but 20" of rifled so should be close to a 20. I agree it is concerning in the velocity. I do load some H4895 for .308 so could be worth a shot too if I don't get good results otherwise. I may switch to the 53s since the BCs was really good like your saying maybe a bit more suited to my twist, and save the 50s for a TC 1/12 .223 I'm planning on getting later.
 
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I run h335 with 55gr v max out of a bolt gun and can almost shoot one raged hole at 100yards.

I load the 55gr to 2.254 instead of 2.250 just don't jam the bolt home if its a little tight. I'm at hornady book max with my charge.
 
I use H335 for 40 gr Nosler BT's, 55's, and 65 gr Sierra GK. Excellent accuracy. In my previous barrel, I used AA2230 behind the 65's and got great accuracy, and you should get good velocity from it. I never could get quite as good accuracy from BLC-2, but that might be my fault from not trying every possible combination.
 
I use BL-C(2) for 53gr SMK bullets, it's easy to meter and the load is extremely accurate for me. It's also both the fastest and most accurate in my .204 Ruger (Savage 12FV) so it does have accuracy potential. I use magnum primers with it for a little better consistency.
 
I use the 52gr A-Max (not V-Max) with 22.5gr of IMR3031. Which reminds me, I'm down to my last 50 loaded rounds, time to buy more bullets.
 
I use the 52gr A-Max (not V-Max) with 22.5gr of IMR3031. Which reminds me, I'm down to my last 50 loaded rounds, time to buy more bullets.
Click to expand...
It also reminds me...
IMR 3031 is the single most forgiving, predictable, 'soft-shooting' powder I have ever used in .223/5.56. Accuracy was never the best, but was always quite good.

For ARs, in particular, where the smooth pressure curve and easy cycling are extra nice to have, it is divine. ;)

But I must also add a minor disclaimer: Most of the 3031 that I've been running for the last 8 years dates to the late '70s or early '80s, and it is also primarily pull-down powder from old .220 Swift loads. I don't know how the newer formulation(s) would compare. I suspect they'd be just as good, but I don't have any experience.
 
Lange,

I have a CZ 527 Varmint .223 with a 24 inch 1:9 twist barrel.

I have shot 40 combinations of powder and bullets using 21 different bullets from 35 grain to 75 grain and 6 different powders (Hodgdon CFE223, H335, H4898; Vihta Vouri N130 and N133; and even Alliant Reloader 15 for the 75 grain bullets). They included almost 2000 measured groups among the 407 Powder-Bullet combinations tried.

The CZ has averaged 0.462 for all groups measured. That includes some load averages in the 0.6s and some of the best in the 0.1s. It took a bit of experimentation while trying bullets and powders to find the loads that worked for each combination. I've included the top 25 so you can see what worked best.

The top 25 load results included:
By Powder:
19 loads with VV N133
3 loads with CFE233
2 loads with H335
1 load with VV N130

Top 25 loads By Bullet:
13 Berger 52 grain # 22408 FB bullets
---- Best was with N133 powder with a 0.153 average at 3109 fps.
3 Sierra 52 grain # 1410 SMK HPBT bullets
---- Best was with N133 powder with a 0.119 average at 3089 fps.
4 Sierra 53 grain # 1400 SMK FB bullets
---- Best was with CFE223 powder with a 0.210 average at 3313 fps.
1 Nosler 40 grain Ballistic Tip bullet.
---- Best was with N133 powder with a 0.248 average at 3500 fps.

The best H335 powder in the top 25 was with Sierra 52 grain # 1410 with a 0.206 average at 3222 fps.
The best N130 powder in the top 25 was with Berger 52 grain # 22408 with a 0.237 average at 3125 fps.

My CZ shoots the 52 grain Berger and Sierra Match bullets and 53 grain Sierra Match bullets better than anything else.
-- The 40 grain Nosler was the 23rd best load of the top 25 loads.
-- The top 10 loads included 8 52 grain Berger # 22408s (7 with N133 and 1 with H335) and 2 52 grain Sierra # 1410s (both with N133).

-- The best 55 grain load averaged 0.364 at 3150 fps using H4895 and a Berger # 22410 Match bullet.
-- The best 63 grain load averaged 0.358 at 2800 fps using H4895 and a Sierra # 1370 bullet.
-- The best 69 grain load averaged 0.378 at 2850 fps using H4895 and a Sierra # 1380 SMK bullet.

I hope this helps you get closer to an accurate load for your rifle. The 22 inch barrel length might require a slightly different loading approach.
 
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Rimfire5, would you mind providing your best load for 52 SMK and Viht-133? I just started experimenting with that combination today, and it would be interesting to see your work as well.
 
CAUTION: The following post (or a page linked to) includes loading data not covered by currently published sources of tested data for this cartridge (QuickLOAD or Gordon's Reloading Tool data is not professionally tested). USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information.

Best loads with N133 and 52 gr SMK #1410 bullets:
With CZ 527 Varmint with 24-inch barrel:
VV N133 23.0 gr at 2.263 O.A.L. @ 3089 fps. trim length 1.751

With Savage 12 FV .223 with 26-inch barrel:
VV N133 22.7 gr at 2.265 O.A.L. 2 3105 fps trim length 1.750
 
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Thank you, Rimfire! I'm going to the range in a little bit to test my loads and some of them are 23.0

I used a different COAL in order to duplicate the base to ogive measurement of my 69 SMK loads, which my rifles love.

I don't expect any connection between your success and my rifles, but it's interesting to see the combinations that work for others.
 
The 52 grain and 53 grain bullets are a lot shorter overall than the 69 grain bullets so the O.A.L. matching will really not be the same.
Every bullet type, even those with the same weights will be different because of the shape of the body and tip.

In my two rifles, all the 52 and 53 grain bullets drop out of the neck if I try to seat them out to touch the lands. As a result, I only try to seat them out as far as I can and yet maintain consistent neck tension. The jump is really long.

With the heavier 69 and 77 grain bullets, I seat them to get between 10 and 20 thousandths jump.
 
Lange said:
Also just the concern I'm running a 20" barrel and having slow velocities not just exactly with the 50s but with book loads listed at like 3300 and I get like 3100 or lower etc.
Click to expand...

Book velocities, except where it says otherwise, are usually with 24" barrels in this cartridge because that is the SAAMI standard pressure and velocity barrel length. Hornady is an exception and lists a 26" barrel for their testing. So you are running with half a foot less barrel than they are, and it is normal to expect to lose around 35 fps per inch of barrel reduction in the 223 with a 50-grain bullet. A little bit less as the barrel gets longer. With the barrel length difference you have, you'd be at about 200 fps lower velocity than the 26" barrel and 140 fps less than a 24" barrel.
 
Ah! I failed to notice it was a zombie thread. A reasonable revivification considering the specific nature of the new question, though.
 
The OP isn't the only one interested in this bullet and that's why I brought up the thread.

Rimfire5 and others, thank you for the info and sharing your loads.

My best test batch produced promising results in my JP CTR-02 20" 1:8

0.376 at 100 yds

52 gr SMK
Viht-133 24.0 gr
Coal range 2.202 - 2.209
All base to ogive measurements were identical using my RCBS gauge
Winchester once-fired brass trimmed to about 1.755 or so
Winchester primer
 
It's not just the interest, which might better be addressed with a new thread (new threads tend to draw more responses) but that your question was specific to Rimfire5's post and was in its context and that his answer made a good additional contribution to that knowledge area that now resides in one thread. That's why I think it was a good revival, despite the age of the OP. No criticism of your choice.

Now, I just want to know if his CZ barrel is shot out yet?
 
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