Is This A Problem With My J-Frame?

R

ReserveCop

New member
I recently purchased a used J-Frame (Model 042). It appears to be in very good condition.

Tonight, while I was wiping it down, I realized I was able to easily pull the open cylinder back along with the rod (crane).

The cylinder stopped only when it hit against the rubber grip of the gun.

I was able to just push, with my hand, the cylinder and rod (crane) back into its proper place.

The J-Frame seems to work fine when I dry fired it.

I have never had this happen with any other revolver.

However, since I use this as my "back-up" gun when I'm on duty, I need my fellow TFL expert opinions on whether or not this is a serious problem that I need to have checked out by a gunsmith, or can I depend on the gun as it is now?

What would allow this to happen on the J-Frame?

Is there anything I can do myself to correct this situation?

Thanks for your opinions.

[Edited by ReserveCop on 03-28-2001 at 02:55 AM]
 
Only J frame I have at hand is a 36 but yours should be similar. There should be a small lump on the frame above the trigger and even with the rear of the cylinder on the left side. This keeps the cylinder from moving to the rear when it is swung out to the left. If the crane has been damaged so as to allow it to open just a tad further than normal the cylinder will clear the lump. Also, somebody may have removed some of the lump material to allow for fast cylinder changing with thin grips.

Advise having somebody who knows Smiths take a look at it. Also check for proper chamber to barrel alignment when the gun is closed.

Sam....early to rise sucks.
 
clyinder movement

C.R.Sam is correct. There should be a little projection on the frame to stop the cylinder from doing what you describe.

If the yoke was sprung enough to allow the cylinder to bypass the projection then it should be pretty noticeable.

The projection might be worn (or filed) down. If either (or both) of the "ledges" on the frame or yoke are worn (where the yoke hinges down upon swinging out the cylinder), then this too could be a possible cause. It could be a bit of all three coming together.

Unless someone has taken a file to the gun for some strange and arcane reason, or the gun has seen a LOT of hard use, it is apt to be a case of manufacturing tolerances where all the minimuns and maximums fell in place to give a worst case result.

If the cylinder locks up securely and all chambers index solidly (and inline with the bore) then the gun is probably safe to shoot.

I'd pass it by a knowledgeable smith for an opinion.
 
I invert the cylinder and eject the empties with a sharp smack of the ejector rod with my palm heel. Sometimes, though not always, my 442's cylinder will wedge itself back over the top of the lengthened boss that they are describing. I just nudge it back into place and keep shooting. It does not do so in otherwise routing use. The Smith rep I spoke to said that this was normal, and shouldn't effect anything.
 
thanks...

How do you check for proper barrel alignment?

By the way, when the cylinder on the Model 042 is closed, eveything appears to be normal.

Thanks for your opinions.
 
Reserve,

Most S&W revolvers WILL do this, but if you find it to be annoying, S&W can fit a slightly larger stud.

I've got an 042 myself. Nice little guns. How much did you pay for yours?
 
Approx. $250 in about 85% condition (i.e. bluing is worn and some small sratches)...otherwise it appears to be in very good working condition.

Mike...does your Model 042 also do this?

Please note: the only thing I'm concerned about is the proper function of the gun as I use it as my "back-up" while on duty.

In addition, my old Model 686 (late '80) does NOT do this.

Thanks for your opinions.
 
Barrel alinement

ReserveCop, a quick a dirty method of checking is to 1) check two or three times to make sure the gun is empty. Then 2) take a regular pencil or ball point about the same diameter of the barrel. Drop it down the barrel, flat end first. Do this with each cylinder. If a given cylinder is not alined properly with the barrel you should be able to feel it.

Repeat, but pull the trigger very smartly to rotate the cylinder.
 
Reserve,

Well, both of my Model 19s will do it, but I have to work at it.

My one Mode 28 will do it, the other one won't.

My 042? Beats me, I haven't tried. I'll try and get back to you.

I'm not going to check now. It's on the workbench in the basement, and I'm in the office upstairs, and I'm too full to schlep down there again... :)
 
This has Nothing to do with the strain screw, which allows you to remove the yoke and cylinder from the gun being loose?
This is the forward most screw on the right hand side of the gun. I thought that if you loosened this screw it would allow you to remove the Yoke(crane ) and cylinder for cleaning.
 
I had this exact condition on a S&W 442. S&W replaced the projection on the frame ("cylinder stop"?) with a larger one. No cost to me except the shipping.
 
Strain screw

MB, IIRC, the strain screw is in the front of the grip frame, and governs the amount of tension the mainspring exerts on the hammer. Some folks fool with this to lighten the DA pull, sometimes so much so that ignition becomes unreliable due to a too-light hammer fall. Doesn't affect the cylinder at all.
 
Master,

Hutch is correct. The mainspring strain screw is located on the front bottom of the grip.

On a J-frame, however, there ISN'T a strain screw because that model uses a coil spring.

The screw that keeps the crane in place is the crane retention screw. It should have no bearing on whether this happens or not, since it simply keeps the crane from coming out of the gun if slid forward.

What Reserve is describing is the cylinder coming off of the crane toward the rear of the gun. There's a stud on the side on the right side of the frame that is there to prevent that.

Sometimes the stud isn't the right size, there's too much "slop" in the gun, or the gun has been beaten pretty badly, and the cylinder will jump over the stud.


Reserve Cop, my 042 won't do this. It's tighter than a drum.

[Edited by Mike Irwin on 03-29-2001 at 01:01 PM]
 
one more question...

Now that we have figured out what the problem with the Model 042 is...the bottom line is whether or not this will effect the proper use of the gun as my "back-up" weapon?

In other words, it is now my understanding that if I don't care if this problem happens when I open the J-Frame's cylinder, and everything "locks" up right when I close the cylinder, this is not a problem that will effect the proper function of my gun.

Is my understanding correct?

Thanks for your opinions.

[Edited by ReserveCop on 03-29-2001 at 07:33 PM]
 
I will not affect the firing and functioning of the weapon, but it could make a speedy reload, an event to remember...7th
 
Actually, it CAN affection functioning, in a direct, and an indirect way...

Direct -- If your cylinder pops out of alignment when you're reloading, it slows you down. Depending on just how it pops, you might have to take a few seconds to jiggle it back into place. In a truly WORST case scenario, the cylinder could detach from the gun completely and fall to the ground. Not likely, but.....

Indirect -- The cylinder problem presents itself most directly when you tip the muzzle of the gun up and stroke the ejector rod to eject the empties. If, to prevent the cylinder from misaligning, you start holding the muzzle horizonal to the ground, or even muzzle down, then you run the greater risk of having the gun lock up, or actually refuse to lock up, if some unburned powder grains get under the extractor star. Unburned powder is a real consideration with a snubby revolver.

But, will this problem OTHERWISE affect the functioning of the gun when the cylinder is locked into place? No, I don't believe that it will.

The ultimate verdict is, at least for me, that I wouldn't use this gun as my back up until it went to either S&W or an S&W authorized repair station to have a larger frame cylinder stud fitted.
 
Yes, S&W's own term for the stud that keeps the open cylinder in place is the "frame lug." The lug used to be a separate part, although AFAIK current production does away with it by recontouring the frame.

Anyway, to me, a lug that's not high enough is a nuisance at best, because the cylinder can override it and jam on it. The problem is not so uncommon as it should be.

So, I've had the S&W service department replace a couple of lugs for me over the years. The replacement lug does not get polished like the original, but I think maybe too much polishing is why some of the lugs are too low. Also, replacing the lug may require refinishing the frame, but S&W does an acceptable job of both. In fact, S&W's betrayal of our rights notwithstanding, I'm not sure I'd trust anyone else to replace this part. I suspect that the work would be done at no charge--at least, such was the case when I had it done.

HTH.
 
Hey ReserveCop:

I just checked several J-frames, and K-frames for the condition you described. Apparently I am lucky not to have such a condition with anything I've checked so far. I won't probably check further because:

If if were a problem, I woulda noticed it already. Since I use a typical open cylinder with muzzle vertical in order to SLAM the spent cases out during a reload, it woulda already been noticed.

In my personal opinion, that is not a reliable firearm for defense, back-up or otherwise. Unless you're planning on just needing 5 rounds, and nothing more.

On a related topic, training with such a defect could cause the officer to develop and maintain a procedure that is specific to that particular revolver. Muscle memory takes over and if you ever pick up another buddy's revolver you might add a few seconds of time getting it up and running once you discover it does not take well to your "modified" manual of arms.

IT must be replaced or repaired in order to be reliable as a BU, don't you agree?

BTW, are you required to shoot your BU in a qualifier? Your instructor/trainer shoulda noticed it and should help with the solution.

If it were my J-frame, I would not hesitate to return it to S&W ASAP. Call them and explain that it is a BU piece. I'd tell them in my accompanying letter that it is your BU piece. S&W will likely repair and return it within 10 (often 7) days after you ship it to them. They sometimes refer to this as 911 service.

Can you get a loaner locally?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top