Is there an effort under way against the LEO's?

H

Hal

New member
First off-no hug/bash content, and limit the good cop/bad cop stuff OK? And please. no justifications for/against enforcement practices.(No-Knocks in specific-they happen, if you don't like it change it at the booth)
A conspiricy may be too harsh a term, but it also may apply. In the last year, I've noticed an increase in the frequency and in the extremeism(sp) of the media to report news stories about police actions. I frimly believe that the media ant the poiticians have targeted the law enforcment community in an effort to (possibly)nationalize the police force. The latest proposals out of Washington call for an increase in funds for federal law enforcement and procecuters. Most of the feel good reporting is aimed at the national level, while most of the negative reporting is aimed at the local level.
The latest subtle report is an article about the Sherrif in Columbine(or Littleton) being the subject of a recall in November. Contrast this with the report that INS has been justified in sending the Cuban kid back. Most of this crap seems to point up the us vs them, attitude. 10 round restrictions on magazines are another area of misreporting. The unspoken message is that LEO's get 'em, we don't. Truth is, their department gets 'em, the individual doesn't. In the eyes of J.Q. Publis(sic), this boils down to a subliminal message-Lots of bullets are bad-hence-Leo's have them(lots)-LEO's are bad. It's childish in it's simplicity, but a lot like the TV commercials it's aimed at the least and not the most.
I put this in the political forum, because I believe the reasons behind it are political in nature. I don't see this as a door to door search by local or even state LE, but federal. The Founding Fathers were terrified of a standing army, and wanted arms in the hands of the citizens-all of them-Law Enforcement too. What seems to be shaping up is a federal law service, which amounts to nothing more than a standing army.
As a non LEO, I accept that an LEO has to view me as a "potential customer". By that I mean, they don't know me from Adam, and even if they did, they have to apply the law equally(no breaks because we're hunting pals or I go to the same shooting range or social events).
Something about the whole thing just stinks.
 
I think you have hit on something that has been my fear. It is the old divide and conquer theory. This is something that I have been refering to with some recent post on TFL, all of RKBA people need to stick together otherwise the battle will be lost. I do believe they are trying to alienate local LEOs from the citizens. I also believe they are trying to federalize local LEOs. For example, in California some San Diego County Probation Officers are not only sworn California peace officers they are also cross sworn as federal peace officers and are assigned to some task force. Interesting isn't it?

[This message has been edited by mrat (edited June 02, 2000).]
 
This is the biggest danger we face in law enforcement, loss of local control. The Reno Justice Department is actually wanting to take over a PD and Ohio and even the LAPD so that the local abuses can be stopped.

A more insidious way they are federalizing law enforcement is by literally buying local departments through grant money. The DOJ hires new officers for a local department, if the local department adopts Washington approved "Community Policing" initiatives. The DOT hires officers from state and local departments to work overtime to enforce alcohol and seatbelt laws.

More and more crimes that were once strictly state and local matters are now in the US Code. Slowly but surely they are federalizing law enforcement.

Imagine having to write Washington to get more radar details near the school zones in the fall!

Jeff
 
I'll buy into the federalization theory. Why? Go to your local library and get the book by Clinton and Gore called " Putting People First : How We Can All Change America" and see how many times he states in there that America needs a national police force. The book is an easy read and you can find about nine references to the same thing in the same words throughout the book in about ten minutes. Very repetitive. Of course, isn't that how brain washing is accomplished?

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Gun Control: The proposition that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own panty hose, is more acceptable than allowing that same woman to defend herself with a firearm.
 
Exactly my points. I wish I were eloquent enough to put it better. If you look around at what is being offered, it's pretty scary stuff, stuff is too mild a term, it's scary $hit. Project Exile for example. Exile works, local enforcement doesn't sums it up. Everybody wants the bad guys behind bars, so if the feds can do it, more power to them. Whooaaaaa, hold on there. More power to them is just that. More power. At that point, with that green light, the slippery slope becomes a free fall. Look at the 5th amendment where it says "twice put in jepordy,,,for the same offence"(sic). Now look at the concept of trying someone under both state and federal for the same basic crime. I swear, every day it gets to be a race to see which federal agency can find the most creative way to circumvent the Constitution. No, Reno didn't quater troops in Miami, but how many feds were in private homes surrounding the Cuban kid I wonder?

I'll be the first to admit a few things. I have no clue how to stop it. Blowing up fed bldgs ala Oklahoma for damn sure isn't the way. Marches and protest aren't either. It has to be more of a smallsteps measure I would guess. If you are in law enforcement, consider this. Would you yourself consider a move to a federal agency a lateral move or a step up? (assuming pay/bennies and all else equal) Would your fellow officers?
Jeeze, even the way we talk and act is programmed. Ever use the term "Don't make a federal case out of something"? Think of what you are actually saying? All I can offer on this are questions. But g*d da*n it somebody for da*n sure better start asking them.
 
My father was a three-term sheriff in Nebraska from 1970 to 1982. He was (and still is) fervently pro-RKBA. He was one of those LEOs who truly did the job in order to help people; he cared. At that time, one of the codewords being tossed about was "consolidation." This referred to smaller agencies combining manpower and equipment in order to provide better service. The other side of the coin: do it, do it our way, and you get the money. My father fought this loss of local control his entire time in office. I believe this is when the Law Enforcement Assistance programs from the feds began appearing.




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Hoka-hey
 
Federalization of law enforcement is indeed an important step in the consolidation of power by Those Who Would Be Our Masters. Most deputies and local police officers, who live in and are part of the communities where they work, would have serious compunctions about shooting unarmed women or burning children alive. For people like Lon Horiuchi, who isn't working among the people he lives with, it's much easier.
 
The "Shield" (LEAA magazine) has some good articles on that. There's good reading in other areas too.

Their lead article is titled:
"Feds threaten to take over Columbus, Ohio Police dept., Is Your Hometown Next?"

Evidently the LEO community has the same concerns.

Check out their site at: http://www.leaa.org/
 
FedGov has wanted to put all Law Enforcement under Federal control for quite some time. They nearly have de facto control now via over-regulation.
 
Watch out for "national accreditation" too---national standards.
Yes, just look at how everyone here gripes about 'the police' and 'law enforcement' when in actuallity they mean 'FEDERAL law enforcement'. Alienate the local LEOs from the citizens, and you have a much easier task of consolidation. Instead of loyalty to the community that denigrates and insults them, the local LEOs are 'loyal to their own',meaning law enforcement as a group.
The best solution? support your local agencies. Pay more to attract better people. encourage citizen/LEO interaction. Treat your LEOs as everyday citizens, not people to be suspicious of. Get the local gun clubs to support events for the LEOs. Win back your local agencies.

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I don't CARE about pretty....I just want dangerous.
 
Nyterunner,
I couldn't agree more w/what you said. Every time I pick up a paper, I read about some national search being done for high rank local police. WTF? Why go national when the other people on the force are home grown? It's the same as saying you're good enough to deal with the crap, don't expect it to amount to anything. The free agent system works real well in Sports doesn't it? (heavy dose of sarcasm)Look around here even. How many times to you read a post "If it's good enough for the FBI, it's good enough for me"?
IMNSHO, the best thing that we as private citizens could do is push to triple the pay rate of local law enforcement, and reduce federal pay scales to min wage.

Oatka, great link. It points up what I'm trying to say here. They say they have 65,000 members. It very well may be 65,001 soon. I don't wholly agree with everyting they say, simply because I haven't walked a mile in their shoes. Same goes for all the LEO's here. I do however see a shift away from the local cop, here in my neighborhood, to some federal agency of some kind pretty much as they do. It looks a whole lot like we are all on the same side in this.

What I want, as a private citizen, is local law enforcement. I want to be as safe as possible, in my home, my neighborhood and the areas where I travel for work. 500 new BATF agents just isn't going to do it.

Now, what can I do for you guys in blue, to get what I want?
 
Thanks for the above posts which have clarified some of my thoughts on this subject.

Seems to me that when local police officers were transformed into federally guided Law Enforcement agents an "us vs. them" mentality started to grow on both sides of the fence. The combination of "LEO's" becoming alienated from "citizens" and the federalization of law enforcement practice together with the fed providing military training and equipment, is slowly turning our police into the "Standing Army" the founders intended to prohibit.

All conspiracy thought aside. By whatever process, our country is turning into a territory occupied by a force based in Washington, D.C..

I retain hope that there are enough good Americans on both sides of the citizen/LEO divide to save us from tyranny.

Bentley

"When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of individual freedom to Americans ...... And so a lot of people say there's too much personal freedom. When personal freedom's being abused, you have to move to limit it. That's what we did in the announcement I made last weekend on the public housing projects, about how we're going to have weapon sweeps and more things like that to try to make people safer in their communities."

-- Bill Clinton, 3-22-94
 
I'd say you're right. It's the standard federalization program: give aid with no strings attached at first, then make demands later when the money runs out (drug dealer's favorite ploy); feds step for the "interim" as an "impartial party "when a local problem occurs that is difficult to resolve (LAPD Rampart, then stays for the duration (Wash DC).

The media and most Dems love the idea of nationalized police. It brings them that much closer to the shiny object called, "the Third Way."
 
The cops will be disarmed next.

Ever wonder why the Fed is spending hundreds of millions on non-lethal weapons?

Once cops can have "phaser" guns, they won't need or be allowed to have real guns. Legal liabilities alone will rule out deadly force.

Once the cops are disarmed, we are next, leaving only the Feds with the weapons.
 
Rae asked a good question here:
"Now, what can I do for you guys in blue, to get what I want?"

Sure would like to hear from some LEO's on this.....how about it guy's? I for one would really like to know.


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"Lead, follow or get the HELL out of the way."
 
Why not put it into simple terms. We are rapidly having the Great Brave New Marxist Socialist Police State Utopia put into place. This has been being orchestrated for many, many years, and now, it accelerates at an accelerating pace.

Let's also understand that Marxist Socialism is nothing more than a combination of communism, nazism, and fascism. The serfs and slaves must be controlled, not only from the cradle to the grave, but from the Erection to the Resurrection.

Want to know what Marxist Socialism REALLY is?? Go back and study the medieval fuedal tyrannies of Europe and England. That is precisely what is coming. A modern day, medieval fuedal police state, in which the King OWNS EVERYTHING. His Princes and Counts and Barons and Dukes and Marquis, and Lords, rule everything and every serf.

Serfs were "of the land," meaning they belonged totally to the King. Serfs had no rights, whatsoever. The King could have them killed for ANY reason he wanted. No recourse.

That is what is being planned for the United States. That is why the Marxist Socialists MUST confiscate our firearms. That is why the police are being taken over by Big Brother.

Problem is, many, many local and state LEOs are hot and heavy for the plan. The one thing that has never changed in the history of mankind, is Human Nature, and Man's obsessive desire for Power and Control.

That's why what is coming in the country can not be stopped. It is like a giant roller coaster that has topped over the first rise. It can no longer be stopped. It must run it's course.

Our Founding Fathers were very well aware of world history and Human Nature. That is precisely why they wrote the Constitution and added the Bill of Rights. And precisely why the Second Article is there....

To stop Human Nature... if, We the People have the instestinal fortitude and courage to do it.

J.B.
 
First off, thanks for keeping this on topic folks. Secondly, looking at the names of the posters, I see a pretty decent cross section of TFL. Couple LEO's, and a few non LEO's. Main thing here is, we are all asking the same questions without pointing fingers anywhere but at the feds and the media. Whether by design or convienience, the feds are getting more and more, and the locals less and less. In the same way hollywood hypes stuff, the media and the feds are hyping stuff. I look at threads like the worst crusier(sp) one, and can't imagine an agency like the FBI putting up with a Maverick(sp) for cryin out loud! Yet some poor SOB out there had to put up with it! Kind of an extreme example, but it typifies the feeling. Pretty much typical of the whole mess is the Cuban kid as opposed to the guy in NY city. The real heat came down on the trigger man and Reno, but nada has been said about INS. OTOH, lotsa stink was made about not only the 3 cops, but the entire NYPD and the mayor in NYC. The headlines just screamed it. Most people just skim the headlines and the pictures in the paper, few read the entire story. C'mon here, what can we as non LEO's do, however small, to say enough is enough? The system has pretty much disarmed us, and I don't want to see you folks be next. Everybody is ready to stand up and be shot at, but few are ready to write a letter or something to support the local PD. I see this pretty much the same as an extension of my personal right to self defense. I'm responsible for me, my family, my neighborhood, my community, my state, my country. They have pretty much take me out of it, and along with it my neighborhood. Next up is the community I guess. The old adage of first they came for,,,kind of applies. The problem is they came for us, but didn't take us, only our hardware. Time for us to put a stop to it I guess. We do need help though. We need to know what you need.

[This message has been edited by RAE (edited June 09, 2000).]
 
I would like to offer an LEO's viewpoint to this thread if I could. I am normally an Ar15.com'r, but I like to frequent this BBS sometimes.

I have been a police officer for ten years now and have seen great amounts of change just in that time, as far as government involvement. For example, my PD used to have their own CRT (SWAT). Then, the FBI came along and organized all the area departments into a regional law enforcement task force, which has members of many area departments on it. They also incorporated a fugitive squad into this, which operates Monday-Friday 8-4pm just looking for warrants and high risk arrests. They sold it to all the local agencies on the cost factor, which is BS because my jurisdiction has never had money troubles. The people have always given us whatever we needed and are very supportive due to the crime rates. Now, don't get me wrong here, I am a member of this task force and it works, as well as being well trained.

The problem with this task force is that the local control has been removed from tactical operations. So, if we are out on a scene and action must be taken, the officers from the local agency have no authority to make that decision. The FBI has to tell them it's OK, or there will be a problem. The FBI decides what training the officers will receive and which officers will serve on the task force.

Now, with that said, I have to admit that most of the FBI agents that I interact with are top-notch individuals. Very educated and well trained. I get a lot of useful information from them, as well as training. They are a definite benefit to our agency, as they give us unlimited time on their FATS machine, and other equipment that we normally wouldn't get access to.

I just have a problem with the Federal government being involved in local affairs, just a small one. That was not the purpose of their creation and yet somehow, they are serving this role now. Any educated, intelligent person cannot help but wonder where it will stop. Federal police? Probably not. But I have seen that purse strings can control policy, even at PD's. I have to wonder why the Feds just can't funnel money into these task forces without running them?? Makes you wonder if they have faith in us or not.

An earlier poster stated that we need to raise local PD salaries. While that would be nice, it's not going to happen because it would surely raise our taxes. Maybe the govt will give a break on our federal taxes to compensate :). Seriously, local LE is really looked down on compared to State or Federal LE. It's the nature of the beast and a common perception that local LE is somehow not as important. I have worked in Local LE for the last ten years and I know that it is not reality, there a re a lot of really great officers. Local LE directly affects the quality of living in their community.

My PD has lost several good, well educated officers to State or Federal LE over the years. It seems the pay draws them to it, as well as the prestige. Even the cops think its a more worthy profession. Who knows?

I guess that's enough babble for now.
 
I work for a municipal PD. Every now and again one of us leaves for federal work, but it is rare. I would not even think of it, especially since the feds seem to have forgotten what police work is. We do have some folks that work on task forces, concentrating on bad guys and not honest citizens. We have a guy who works with an ATF laison, focusing on felons with firearms. Since that has started a good number of violent felons are back in prison, serving day for day time. We do not want to alienate the community from our help or assistance, many thank us for doing what we can. The folks who are mainly the ones that hate us are those who are arrested for their actions, they seem to be the same ones over and over again.
The unit I am on now is federally funded, a community policing unit. I see the apathy towards us more now as well as the citizens who appreciate our job. The apathy comes in the form of not believing that we are there to listen to their needs and concerns, and not responding to our questions of those needs. So we try and do our best, all that can be asked for.
Accreditation is a great thing. That deals with keeping department policy in line, up to date, and always current. Not too many departments are accredited. It is a full time position for an LEO, all paperwork. "National" means that agencies across the nation try and keep similiar polices, to my knowledge, no feds are keeping an eye on what our policies are and how they think we could do it their way.
The question of what can I get from the guys in blue was brought up. Talk to us, voice your concerns to the local beat cop. Keep in mind that more often than not we are chasing the radio all shift, but the community knows what they need best, tell us and give us something to work on aside from calls. Bring it up to the district commanders or watch commanders, things work their way down to us lowly beat officers. And be vocal, keeping the community and LE in touch is a decent way to help reduce or contain a problem.
Federal LE does not know what our city needs, nor ever will, no matter how much they think it does, but when I have seen them, they are after the high level drug dealers or violent felons.
Our agenda is to help our city, not to please a fed. Talk to us, need your input on the matter.
This one could be debated: to me, "us v. them" eqates to LE/community v. the bad guys, they know who they are.
 
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