Is the 'Smart Gun' Concept Stupid?

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Is the 'Smart Gun' Concept Stupid?
Advocates Debate Clinton's Development Proposal http://www.apbnews.com/newscenter/breakingnews/2000/01/04/smartguns0104_01.html
Jan. 4, 2000

By James Gordon Meek

WASHINGTON (APBnews.com) -- Advocates of "smart
guns" believe experimental technology will prevent children
from accidentally firing handguns and criminals from making
use of stolen weapons while allowing adult gun owners to
use them for protection or sport.

But few working prototypes exist for these sci-fi weapons,
which use computer chips to prevent unauthorized users
from firing a gun. They are only a few steps removed from the
idea stage.

President Clinton is pushing for development of the new
technology. On Sunday, White House Chief of Staff John
Podesta said the president wants $10 million for research
and development in his fiscal year 2001 federal budget, due
this October.

But full-scale production is a long way off, and millions in research dollars are needed to make the
sketchy concept a reality, say those on the leading edge of smart-gun development. Some
gun-control advocates join their usual opponents in describing smart-gun research as a waste of
time and money.

"Pouring $10 million into smart guns is like pouring it down a black hole," said Kristen Rand of the
Violence Policy Center in Washington.

'Buck Rogers appeal'

Rand believes workable smart-gun technology is a near impossibility, "but it's got that kind of Buck
Rogers appeal to it that Americans love."

The unabashedly anti-gun advocacy group also objects to smart-gun technology because if ever
perfected it might encourage millions of Americans reluctant to purchase today's firearms to
reconsider in favor of something they perceive as safer.

That's what at least one U.S. gunmaker, Colt's Manufacturing Co. of Hartford, Conn., has banked
on.

The 164-year old company -- which went bankrupt in 1842 and again in 1992 -- received a
$500,000 grant in 1997 from the National Institute of Justice (NIJ) to develop a smart gun for law
enforcement; the company also sees a future consumer market.

Colt's delivered two prototypes last spring for a .40-caliber handgun that will not work unless it
receives a radio signal from a user wearing a transmitter in a wristwatch or finger ring. Colt's has kept
one model and loaned the other to the government, which allegedly tested the weapon
improperly and broke the device.

A no-cost extension for Colt's was granted until March 2000, and company spokeswoman Beth
Lavach said the final "proof of concept" was delivered to the Department of Justice Monday,
ahead of the revised deadline. Lavach also said Colt's would likely ask for more research money
from the government, but a decision has not been made.

Money not available for R&D

Bringing the smart-gun product to the marketplace has been hampered by the inability of Colt's to
attract investment capital for its enterprises. Resources have been drained fighting off lawsuits by
U.S. cities against gunmakers, and investors are reluctant to gamble on the company.

Likewise, interest in smart-gun technology has been tepid from the rest of the firearms industry.
Manufacturers evidently find it easier to sell existing conventional arms than to spend millions on
next-generation weapons.

"Manufacturers have not spent much money on smart-gun R&D," said James Chambers,
president of the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) in Alexandria, Va. "But if
government research money was made available, they would pursue it."

The NSSF is the lobbying wing of the gun-making industry. Chambers said his organization would
not oppose the Clinton administration's efforts to get the funding.

Industry wants to avoid smart-gun mandate

Chambers said the industry would only object if the federal
government attempted to mimic Maryland Gov. Parris
Glendening, who wants to mandate that the only handguns
sold in the state be "smart" ones.

Forcing gunmakers to develop smart guns instead of
encouraging them with incentives will mean many brands will
be cut out of the market because they can't afford the R&D
costs, Chambers argued.

Beretta USA, the Accokeek, Md., branch of the 500-year-old
Italian gunmaker that supplies arms to the U.S. military and
civilian law enforcement agencies, has used outrage over
Glendening's proposal to raise funds for its conservative
political action committee.

'Nothing made by man is perfect'

While gunmakers might be reluctant to drop cash to design
smart guns, the leading developers of the technology have
few investment resources to draw upon, either. Resolving
potential product liability issues may also be a legitimate
problem.

Technology is imperfect and prone to failure, as anyone knows who has ever used electronic
devices ranging from desktop computers to pocket calculators. If a smart gun fails to recognize a
legitimate user -- like an officer whose service weapon employs the technology -- the results could
be disastrous and also costly in the legal realm.

That is a worthwhile risk, said CEO Steve Morton of Oxford Micro Devices Inc. of Monroe, Conn.,
who claims he is a leading developer of fingerprint-imaging technology and can make a handgun
that recognizes one or more programmed users.

"Liability is something that has to be dealt with," Morton said. "Nothing made by man is perfect.
Sooner or later a smart gun will fire when it shouldn't or won't fire when it should. That's the balance
society has to face."

The entrepreneur pointed to vehicle air bags and pacemakers -- electronic devices that have
saved hundreds of lives for every one the technologies have taken.

Product development suspended

Those issues will have to wait. Oxford Micro Devices suspended product development for firearms
last August due to lack of clients or other funding sources.

The company will not count on the White House or the Republican-controlled Congress to step up
to the plate to fund further R&D; it unveiled a Web site last summer that asks for the public's help --
and dollars.

"There's no sense waiting for legislation," Morton said.

James Gordon Meek is an APBnews.com staff writer in Washington
 
They appear to be simply unwilling to face the fact that if a "smart" gun fails in the hands of a police officer, it's likely not going to be a result of an accident or malfunction, but instead of deliberate jamming. ALL the smart gun concepts I've seen so far are subject to one form of jamming or another, and if such guns become standard police equipment, jammers will become available on the black market in short order.

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Sic semper tyranus!
 
http://www.safergunsnow.org/
http://www.oxfordmicrodevices.com/

the guy behind OMD was the guy on the early show with no knowledge of safe gunhandling.
he violated all the rules in 15 seconds flat

Latest Design

"Grab, aim and shoot." The gun could be used like an ordinary
gun. The user's middle finder would press a switch (recessed red
button beneath trigger) to turn on the gun and rest upon Oxford's
fast fingerprint image sensor (large red rectangle). The images
would be processed very quickly by Oxford's A336 image processor
chip (yellow square), which controls the firing of the gun.
Fingerprints and the program for the processor would be stored in
a nonvolatile memory chip (blue square). Power would be
supplied by batteries (purple cylinders) in the magazine.
 
To answer your question - At the conceptual level, an improved 'safety' is a good thing. But, I would additionally state that 'safety' is a practice, not a gadget (as someone pointed out, nothing made by man is perfect, so the final responsibility will rest with he operator, regardless).

However, given the current level of specification for a 'smart gun' and level of technology available today, mandating it [non-existent technology] in the near future IS stupid. I mean, like, they have voice activated security on personal phasers on STARTREK, but that's still Sci-fi & 300 years in the future (Hell, leting gov't mandate any technology is stuipid in and of itself, because technology far and away evolves faster than any legislative body can respond [at all, let alone intelligently] - wouldn't it be wonderfully ironic if a truly 'smart', safe, usable, failsafe gun was kept off the market because it wasn't the mandated technology (tee hee)).

I guess the basic problem is really letting fools who understand neither guns or technology write laws about either. Merde. M2

[This message has been edited by Mike in VA (edited January 19, 2000).]
 
the top video on that page is a 4 meg download of the Early Show broadcast from this fall. The Smart gun guru spends a fair amount of the interview with his finger on the trigger, shaking the gun at the TV camera.

smart really smart
 
Said it before, say it again... when you remove responsibility for safety from the gun's operator, the basics of safety become lost.

Just like muscles and rights, The Rules must be exercised constantly, lest they become atrophied through disuse.

------------------
"If your determination is fixed, I do not counsel you to despair. Few things are impossible to diligence and skill. Great works are performed not by strength, but perseverance."
-- Samuel Johnson

[This message has been edited by Coinneach (edited January 20, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Technology is imperfect and prone to failure, as anyone knows who has ever used electronic devices ranging from desktop computers to pocket calculators. If a smart gun fails to recognize a legitimate user -- like an officer whose service weapon employs the technology -- the results could be disastrous and also costly in the legal realm. That is a worthwhile risk, said CEO Steve Morton of Oxford Micro Devices Inc.[/quote]

Tell that to the dead officer's family. A**hole.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Sooner or later a smart gun will fire when it shouldn't or won't fire when it should. That's the balance society has to face.[/quote]

I wonder if this guy would feel the same way if someone he cared about died becuase of one of these things.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The entrepreneur pointed to vehicle air bags and pacemakers -- electronic devices that have saved hundreds of lives for every one the technologies have taken.[/quote]

Ridiculous comparison. We're not forcing every American heart-owner to rely on a pacemaker. If we did, you'd see the same resistance.
 
Many years ago, some futurist envisioned a "smart" car. A vehicle you would enter, give a command to, and then sit back and enjoy the ride while it automatically transported you to your destination.
Back then, the idea was to bury some sort of cable in the roadway that would interact with an onboard computer to accomplish this task. If memory serves, I believe that someone even constructed a test track somewhere to test this concept. It failed miserably.
More recently, this idea was revived with the belief that the Global Positioning Satellite system could somehow be used to provide guidance for the vehicle. A short while later, I remember reading a story about some poor guy who, while using his new GPS to find an address he had never been to before, proceeded to drive his new car right into a lake.
The more I read and hear about "smart" guns, the more I'm reminded of that poor slob driving into the lake.
The original concept for the smart gun supposedly came about as a result of a problem that LEOs were having, that 16-17% of those killed in the line of duty were shot with their own handgun. From that perspective, development of such a device seemed a noble pursuit. Except that, in reviewing all the potential problems that they would have to accept with employment of this device, most LEOs don't seem to want the trade off in reliability that they now have.
Well, that tepid response was a little embarrassing.
But this is too good an idea to let die, so let's drag the kids into it. Think of all those children who accidentally shoot themselves with stupid guns! Yeah, kids are always a good bet!
I doubt that anyone has the statistics to back this up, but the one thing I always notice about these accidental kid shootings when they're reported locally is that the incident occurred in one of the poorer sections of town and the handgun in question always proves to be an inexpensive model that was usually acquired second-hand.
So what are the chances that someone who can only afford a used "Saturday Night Special" is going to upgrade to one of these high-tech, high-cost Buck Rogers blasters?
The cops don't want them.
Poor folks can't afford them.
The rest of the gun nuts are largely uninterested.
The only people who want them are the manufacturers who stand to profit from their sale and the anti-gun politicians who are using this concept as a vehicle to get rid of all guns.
This is where I'm getting off, so you can stop the bus now.
If you ever come up with a really "smart" gun, you know, one that shoots around corners or can take out multiple targets with one bullet, or can never, ever miss,... call me!


------------------
If laws really worked, there would be no crime!
 
A firearm, any firearm, is inherently dangerous because a projectile can be "launched" from the barrel at high velocity. To make a gun "safe", you must keep this from happening. To do this effectively, is to go against the primary design of the firearm. Its like saying, "too many people injure their thumbs while driving nails. We need safe hammers that are padded with a thick neoprene jacket encasing down and poly-fill insulation. That way, if they hit their thumbs, it wont hurt as much." That's all fine and good, but the hammer would then be worthless. The same is true of the "smart" gun. A gun that doesn't fire when you pull the trigger is a worthless tool. Saftey lies in the practices of the person handling the tool. When will all these feel-gooder's realize that this will not make them safer, nor is it designed to. If this kind of system is made a requirement, it will lead to REAL lawsuits against the gun makers for faulty products the first time an LEO in killed when his "Smart" duty weapon doesn't fire, or a child is killed while playing with a "smart" gun that does fire. I agree that gun violence is a terrible thing, but ignorance is not an excuse to create an answer to a question not asked.
-John
 
How about a "smart gun" for government agents that will only fire at armed criminals rather than, say, an unarmed woman holding a baby?

Or how about a "smart gun" that won't fire if it's used in a police raid on the wrong house?

Hmmm...
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
IMPORTANT NOTICE: Oxford Micro Devices, Inc., suspended ALL efforts, including ALL technical and legislative efforts,
related solely to "smart" guns or childproof guns last Summer due to a lack of support from the public and the government
for them. The information provided herein is for reference purposes only. Oxford Micro Devices, Inc., is NOT developing any
gun-related products.[/quote]
 
Just remember guys. AS SOON AS we 'accept' the "smart gun" technology, some bureaucrat will outlaw ALL the "dumb guns" which are ALL THE GUNS WE NOW OWN!!!!!!

BTW, none of my "dumb ole guns" have decided to fire off a round on their own yet!
 
Or how about a "smart gun" that won't fire if it's used in a police raid on the wrong house?
___________________________________________

Sounds like a good idea. You could use GPS. As technology advances the GPS system in the gun would be able to determine EXACTLY what address the BATFag is at. When the kick in the wrong door (which they are for some reason apt to do) and try to shoot the guy who is defending his home, they are met by a locked trigger on their MP5's and a hail of 7.62X39 FMJ's coming their way. There could be another person somewhere whose sole job is to program all the firearms before each raid with the correct address! It would require a special key to program so a murderous ninja BATFag couldn't go out killing at random (at least with the smart guns). That's where this smart gun technology should be taking us.

Joel
 
Im with critter44 and on this oneWASHINGTON (APBnews.com) -- Advocates of "smart
guns" believe experimental technology will prevent children
from accidentally firing handguns --

Does this happen that often its far more likely that several accounts where children as young as 12 have used firearms to successfully defend their homes scare the bejesus out of the anti-self defense crowd.
Thus we get mandatory storage laws and
'smartgun' tech to make guns safer (once again poiting to all the dumb assed and irresponsible gunowners in america,I mean thats you and me right??) and a good bit more exspensive and more difficult to use
so that young ones caught at home when parents are working will have a much harder time figuring out which safeties are on or off and faking their parents finger print to stop the mugger/rapist/homeinvader who had been waiting for the adults to leave.
I learned to shoot at 10,Ive regularly seen children 13 and 14 shooting as well as I now with small caliber handguns at my local range.
Dont let the federal government make your home 'safer' or decide how to 'protect' your family that idea has yet to work well if at all.
 
A smart gun doesn't make up for a stupid gun handler. The best safety is the one between the ears. Everything else is secondary.
 
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