Creek Henry
New member
I went to a gun show today and saw lots of 9s, 45s, 22, 380, 32s and even some 10s... I didn't see one pistol in 40. Is it baked at this point?
Is the 40 done?
- Thread starter Creek Henry
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TruthTellers
New member
Why is there so much focus on .40 "being dead" or "is it close to being dead" when there are a bunch of other calibers that actually are dead, like .357 Sig, .45 GAP, .25 ACP...
When .40 joins those other calibers in being not commonly owned or shot at ranges, then .40 is done. I still see some .40 being shot at my range, but I've yet to see anyone shooting .357 Sig or .45 GAP in my entire life.
.40 will never die, even if it's the third most popular semi auto caliber, it's far above .380 and many other calibers. One thing that will keep .40 around forever is it's ability to work in 10mm chambered pistols with minimal to no modifications.
10mm is popular now, people want them and if 10mm overtakes .40 in popularity, .40 will still be around because of the cheaper ammo cost vs 10mm.
When .40 joins those other calibers in being not commonly owned or shot at ranges, then .40 is done. I still see some .40 being shot at my range, but I've yet to see anyone shooting .357 Sig or .45 GAP in my entire life.
.40 will never die, even if it's the third most popular semi auto caliber, it's far above .380 and many other calibers. One thing that will keep .40 around forever is it's ability to work in 10mm chambered pistols with minimal to no modifications.
10mm is popular now, people want them and if 10mm overtakes .40 in popularity, .40 will still be around because of the cheaper ammo cost vs 10mm.
It's not as popular as it once was, and will never again be as popular as it once was, but it's not dead and will, IMO, never become dead.
It's just not as mainstream as it was when it was a common choice for LE.
It will be around for a very long time--there are just too many guns chambered for it.
It's just not as mainstream as it was when it was a common choice for LE.
It will be around for a very long time--there are just too many guns chambered for it.
There's an old quote I believe attributed to Mark Twain " The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated " .
As said it will probably never be as popular as it once was, but far from being done.
I've been around long enough to see the 38spl, 357, 9mm,10mm,40sw, and 9mm again all be the latest greatest round for law enforcement.
As said it will probably never be as popular as it once was, but far from being done.
I've been around long enough to see the 38spl, 357, 9mm,10mm,40sw, and 9mm again all be the latest greatest round for law enforcement.
32 has been making a comeback lately as a choice for concealed carry for those with poor grip strength. The .327 magnum revolver is making tiny inroads as being able to shoot all of the smaller 32 cartridges. I figured both of those rounds for being dead, with the 327 mag DOA and the various 32 cartridges as having faded in to obscurity in the 70s.
Nothing ever really goes away, it just needs to find a niche.
Nothing ever really goes away, it just needs to find a niche.
Creek Henry
New member
Well true... But I was looking for a specific gun in 40 but didn't see any... None, which was eerie. 5 years ago, there were a bunch. I think there was one pistol In 357 sig. I asked about a 50gi and just got a strange look . I guess there are too many calibers that have the same function at this point.
The 357 Sig is FAR from dead. It is where the 10mm languished for decades. It is an enthusiasts caliber, always will be. The 40 is the third most popular auto ammo sold in the US. Maybe it is just the region of the country you are in.
The 357 Sig has been out since 1994. Maybe you are young and not in the proper circles to see its use. It has never been hugely popular but it does enjoy a small loyal following. It is a significant upgrade to power over the 9mm fired in the same sized pistol.
Hard to judge an industry from one store. While 9mm is no doubt more popular, every store around me still has some 40SW models.
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gbclarkson
New member
I thought this was a Paul McCartney remark.
J.G. Terry
New member
Right Now....
My carry gun is a G23.5. I have discovered that 40S&W rounds will not bounce off targets. The idea of a 180 gr bullet @ 1000fps is appealing. Dead only to the Kool-Aid drinkers.
Addendum: I also have a OEM barrel for 357 SIG for the G23.4.
My carry gun is a G23.5. I have discovered that 40S&W rounds will not bounce off targets. The idea of a 180 gr bullet @ 1000fps is appealing. Dead only to the Kool-Aid drinkers.
Addendum: I also have a OEM barrel for 357 SIG for the G23.4.
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Creek Henry
New member
Okay... Gun show in the heart of Dallas... It just seemed odd.
I don't think any caliber ever goes away or dies. Thats why there are guns still made in 38-40 and 44-40. They are guns bought by cowboy shooters but they are still made and sold. And no, 25acp is not dead.
As for the 40 not being as popular that is correct. But as soon as the is some big LE shooting and the 9mm is blamed for the failure LE will once again look at the 40S&W. And if they switch back so will the public.
Shooters are a very fickle bunch. They remind me of the those big flocks of birds or schools of fish that when one goes a new direction they all go the same way as the leader.
I started shooting just when hi-cap 9mms were coming on board and the cops were all switching to autos and selling off revolvers. I watched the trend to 40S&W and now the trend back to 9mm. Just wait. 40S&W will be back.
As for the 40 not being as popular that is correct. But as soon as the is some big LE shooting and the 9mm is blamed for the failure LE will once again look at the 40S&W. And if they switch back so will the public.
Shooters are a very fickle bunch. They remind me of the those big flocks of birds or schools of fish that when one goes a new direction they all go the same way as the leader.
I started shooting just when hi-cap 9mms were coming on board and the cops were all switching to autos and selling off revolvers. I watched the trend to 40S&W and now the trend back to 9mm. Just wait. 40S&W will be back.
Shane Tuttle
Staff
I don't think .40SW is dead as much as 9mm has taken off again in popularity. It's not the only contributing factor, mind you. Improved ballistics of the 9mm by way of "new" powders, bullets, etc. have pushed the 9mm into .40SW performance territory. That, and greater capacity in the same platform has people looking away from .40SW.
Again, not the only factors.
Again, not the only factors.
There is no "dead" until the food is COMPLETLY gone.
Cartridges may go into "hibernation" when the food supply (ammo) dwindles, but they aren't completely dead until the there is no more ammo, and none will ever again be made.
Now, when the popularity drops enough, they stop reproducing (factories stop making new ones) but the existing guns don't die, as we have seen, they just stop going out every day, then stop going out at all (with rare exceptions), they just go into hibernation or some kind of stasis.
They are like the classic zombie of legend (NOT the zombies of modern movies), or like the mummy from the 40s mummy movies. Undead, but not doing anything, until some cult priest (voodoo or other..) brings them back to "life" and movement.
Look at all the rounds in the history of metallic cartridges. Many rounds from the early days, considered long dead, are now being made again, though in small numbers at niche prices.
Even some of the obsolete rimfire rounds are being produced again. With the return of some food, some of the old guns are reawakening from their dormant state and see some use again.
However, currently there is not enough "food" (ammo and popular demand) for these calibers to begin reproducing again. There may never be, again. But there is enough to keep a few of them "alive".
One "classic" modern example is the 5mm Remington Magnum. After Remington stopped making the ammo, (and no one else was) they went into deep sleep. At one point, a box of 5mm ammo was worth as much, or more than one of the 5mm rifles!
Today there is (at least) one other company making 5mm ammo (after decades of no one doing it), so the 5mm could, potentially, "rise and walk the earth again..."
There is a HUGE difference between "dead" and no longer commanding a large share of the new retail market.
SO, "slowing down a bit..." sure, dead? not hardly..
Cartridges may go into "hibernation" when the food supply (ammo) dwindles, but they aren't completely dead until the there is no more ammo, and none will ever again be made.
Now, when the popularity drops enough, they stop reproducing (factories stop making new ones) but the existing guns don't die, as we have seen, they just stop going out every day, then stop going out at all (with rare exceptions), they just go into hibernation or some kind of stasis.
They are like the classic zombie of legend (NOT the zombies of modern movies), or like the mummy from the 40s mummy movies. Undead, but not doing anything, until some cult priest (voodoo or other..) brings them back to "life" and movement.
Look at all the rounds in the history of metallic cartridges. Many rounds from the early days, considered long dead, are now being made again, though in small numbers at niche prices.
Even some of the obsolete rimfire rounds are being produced again. With the return of some food, some of the old guns are reawakening from their dormant state and see some use again.
However, currently there is not enough "food" (ammo and popular demand) for these calibers to begin reproducing again. There may never be, again. But there is enough to keep a few of them "alive".
One "classic" modern example is the 5mm Remington Magnum. After Remington stopped making the ammo, (and no one else was) they went into deep sleep. At one point, a box of 5mm ammo was worth as much, or more than one of the 5mm rifles!
Today there is (at least) one other company making 5mm ammo (after decades of no one doing it), so the 5mm could, potentially, "rise and walk the earth again..."
There is a HUGE difference between "dead" and no longer commanding a large share of the new retail market.
SO, "slowing down a bit..." sure, dead? not hardly..